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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Johann] #155198
08/19/13 01:07 PM
08/19/13 01:07 PM
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Harold Fair  Offline
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Matthew 5:22 should be a reason to stick to the KJV. Read it, then read a "new" translation. See who is saved and who is lost.


Harold T.
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Harold Fair] #155203
08/19/13 02:28 PM
08/19/13 02:28 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Harold Fair
Matthew 5:22 should be a reason to stick to the KJV. Read it, then read a "new" translation. See who is saved and who is lost.
Personal opinion does not mean facts.

Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: APL] #155204
08/19/13 02:29 PM
08/19/13 02:29 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: green
Anyone with a reasonable mind would recognize this.
Hm - are you saying Johann does not have a reasonable mind? I think so! I don't suppose you'd like to moderate yourself now, would you?
ROFL ROFL ROFL

Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Green Cochoa] #155205
08/19/13 02:39 PM
08/19/13 02:39 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Study the chapter in Great Controversy on the Waldenses/Vaudois, and the source of their truth and convictions.
Green, you've never addressed why "truth" as Ellen White uses it in relation to the Waldenses means "the KJV".


In speaking of the "United Brethren" who were the remainders to the truth from the Bohemian Hussites who did not compromise with Rome, she says:
Quote:
Through messengers secretly sent out into different countries, they learned that here and there were "isolated confessors of the truth, a few in this city and a few in that, the object, like themselves, of persecution; and that amid the mountains of the Alps was an ancient church, resting on the foundations of Scripture, and protesting against the idolatrous corruptions of Rome."--Wylie, b. 3, ch. 19. This intelligence was received with great joy, and a correspondence was opened with the Waldensian Christians. {GC 119.2}
Do you intend this to mean that the Bohemians had the KJV and were glad to find others, including the Waldenses, who also had the KJV?

Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: kland] #155212
08/19/13 05:58 PM
08/19/13 05:58 PM
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Harold Fair  Offline
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So you didn't read it in more translations. that isn't my problem. All I can say is 'Thank God" for the KJV. Otherwise, NO one would make it to Heaven.


Harold T.
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Harold Fair] #155213
08/19/13 06:13 PM
08/19/13 06:13 PM
APL  Offline
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Matthew 5:22

(ABP) But I say to you, that all provoking to anger his brother, in vain, shall be liable to the judgment. And who ever should say to his brother, Worthless! shall be liable to the sanhedrin. And who ever should say O moron! shall be liable for the Gehenna of fire.

(ABP+) But IG1473 G1161 sayG3004 to you,G1473 thatG3754 allG3956 G3588 provoking to angerG3710 G3588 his brother,G80 G1473 in vain,G1500 shall be liableG1777 G1510.8.3 to theG3588 judgment.G2920 And whoG3739 G1161 everG302 should sayG2036 to G3588 his brother,G80 G1473 Worthless!G4469 shall be liableG1777 G1510.8.3 to theG3588 sanhedrin.G4892 And whoG3739 G1161 everG302 should sayG2036 O moron!G3474 shall be liableG1777 G1510.8.3 forG1519 theG3588 GehennaG1067 G3588 of fire.G4442

(ACV) But I say to you, that every man who is angry at his brother without cause will be liable to the judgment, and whoever speaks an insult to his brother will be liable to the council, and whoever says, Foolish man, will be liable to

(AKJV) But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

(AKJV+) ButG1161 IG1473 sayG3004 to you,G5213 ThatG3754 whoeverG3956 is angryG3710 with hisG848 brotherG80 without a causeG1500 shall beG2071 in dangerG1777 of theG3588 judgment:G2920 andG1161 whoeverG3739 G302 shall sayG2036 to hisG848 brother,G80 Raca,G4469 shall beG2071 in dangerG1777 of theG3588 council:G4892 butG1161 whoeverG3739 G302 shall say,G2036 You fool,G3474 shall beG2071 in dangerG1777 ofG1519 hellG1067 fire.G4442

(ANT) I but say [to] you* for Every The [Man] Being Enraged [with] the brother [of] him Obligated will be [to] the judgment Who but ever may say [to] the brother [of] him raka Obligated will be [to] the council Who but ever may say [Man] Foolish Obligated will be to the hell [of] the fire

(ANT+) IG1473 butG1161 sayG3004 [to] you*G5213 forG3754 EveryG3956 TheG3588 [Man] Being EnragedG3710 [with] theG3588 brotherG80 [of] himG846 ObligatedG1777 will beG2071 [to] theG3588 judgmentG2920 WhoG3739 butG1161 everG302 may sayG2036 [to] theG3588 brotherG80 [of] himG846 rakaG4469 ObligatedG1777 will beG2071 [to] theG3588 councilG4892 WhoG3739 butG1161 everG302 may sayG2036 [Man] FoolishG3474 ObligatedG1777 will beG2071 toG1519 theG3588 hellG1067 [of] theG3588 fireG4442

(ASV) but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

(BBE) But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be in danger of being judged; and he who says to his brother, Raca, will be in danger from the Sanhedrin; and whoever says, You foolish one, will be in danger of the hell of fire.

(CEV) But I promise you that if you are angry with someone, you will have to stand trial. If you call someone a fool, you will be taken to court. And if you say that someone is worthless, you will be in danger of the fires of hell.

(CJB) But I tell you that anyone who nurses anger against his brother will be subject to judgment; that whoever calls his brother, 'You good-for-nothing!' will be brought before the Sanhedrin; that whoever says, 'Fool!' incurs the penalty of burning in the fire of Gei-Hinnom!

(CNT) But I myself-am-saying to-YOU, that every (one), the (one) being-wroth with his brother at-random, will-be liable in-the judgement: but whosoever might-say to his brother, Numbskull, he-will-be liable to-the council: but whosoever might-say, Stupid, he-will-be liable with-reference-to the Gehenna of-the fire.

(Darby) But *I* say unto you, that every one that is lightly angry with his brother shall be subject to the judgment; but whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be subject to be called before the sanhedrim; but whosoever shall say, Fool, shall be subject to the penalty of the hell of fire.

(DRB) But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

(EMTV) But I say to you that whoever gets angry with his brother without cause will be liable to the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Empty-head!' will be liable to the council. But whoever says, ' fool!' will be liable to the fiery hell.

(ESV) But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.

(FBV) But I tell you, anyone who is angry with his brother will be condemned as guilty. Whoever calls his brother an idiot has to answer to the council*, and whoever insults people is liable to the fire of judgment*.”


(Fenton) But I tell you, that every man quarrelling with his brother will be liable to punishment; and if he should call his brother 'Scoundrel,' he will be liable to the High Court of Justice ; and whoever shall call his brother ' Rebel,' will be liable to the branding by fire.

(GNB) But now I tell you: if you are angry with your brother you will be brought to trial, if you call your brother 'You good-for-nothing!' you will be brought before the Council, and if you call your brother a worthless fool you will be in danger of going to the fire of hell.

(GSNT) But I tell you that anyone who gets angry with his brother will have to answer to the court, and anyone who speaks contemptuously to his brother will have to answer to the great council, and anyone who says to his brother 'You cursed fool!' will have to answer for it in the fiery pit!

(GW) But I can guarantee that whoever is angry with another believer will answer for it in court. Whoever calls another believer an insulting name will answer for it in the highest court. Whoever calls another believer a fool will answer for it in hellfire.

(HRB) But I say to you that anyone who provokes to anger his brother without cause, is condemned to judgment and anyone who should say to his brother, I spit on you is condemned to the assembly, and anyone who should say, you are a coward, is condemned to the Gehenna of fire.

(ISV) But I say to you, anyone who is angry with his brother without a cause will be subject to punishment. And whoever says to his brother 'Raka!' will be subject to the Council. And whoever says 'You fool!' will be subject to hell fire.

(JBP+4P) But I say to you that anyone who is angry with his brother must stand his trial; anyone who contemptuously calls his brother a fool must face the supreme court; and anyone who looks on his brother as a lost soul is himself heading straight for the fire of destruction.

(JBP-NT) But I say to you that anyone who is angry with his brother must stand his trial; anyone who contemptuously calls his brother a fool must face the supreme court; and anyone who looks on his brother as a lost soul is himself heading straight for the fire of destruction.

(KJ3) But I say to you, Everyone who is angry with his brother without cause shall be liable to the Judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the sanhedrin; but whoever says, Fool! shall be liable to be thrown into the fire of Hell.

(KJV) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

(KJV+TVM) ButG1161 IG1473 sayG3004 [G5719] unto youG5213, ThatG3754 whosoeverG3956 is angryG3710 [G5746] with hisG846 brotherG80 without a causeG1500 shall beG2071 [G5704] in dangerG1777 of the judgmentG2920: andG1161 whosoeverG3739 G302 shall sayG2036 [G5632] to hisG846 brotherG80, RacaG4469, shall beG2071 [G5704] in dangerG1777 of the councilG4892: butG1161 whosoeverG3739 G302 shall sayG2036 [G5632], Thou foolG3474, shall beG2071 [G5704] in dangerG1777 ofG1519 hellG1067 fireG4442.

(KJV+) ButG1161 IG1473 sayG3004 unto you,G5213 ThatG3754 whosoeverG3956 is angryG3710 with hisG848 brotherG80 without a causeG1500 shall beG2071 in dangerG1777 of theG3588 judgment:G2920 andG1161 whosoeverG3739 G302 shall sayG2036 to hisG848 brother,G80 Raca,G4469 shall beG2071 in dangerG1777 of theG3588 council:G4892 butG1161 whosoeverG3739 G302 shall say,G2036 Thou fool,G3474 shall beG2071 in dangerG1777 ofG1519 hellG1067 fire.G4442

(KJV*) But I sayG3004 unto you, That whosoever-G3956G3588 is angryG3710 with his brotherG80 withoutG1500 a causeG1500 shall be in dangerG1777 of the judgment:G2920 and whosoever-G3739G302 shall sayG2036 to his brother,G80 Raca,G4469 shall be in dangerG1777 of the council:G4892 but whosoever-G3739G302 shall say,G2036 Thou fool,G3474 shall be in dangerG1777 of hellG1067 fire.G4442

(Lamsa) But I say to you, that whoever becomes angry with his brother for no reason, is guilty before the court: and whoever should say to his brother, Raca (which means, I spit on you) is guilty before the congregation; and whoever says to his brother, you are a nurse maid, is condemned to hell fire.

(LBLA) Pero yo os digo que todo aquel que esté enojado con su hermano será culpable ante la corte; y cualquiera que diga: "Raca" a su hermano, será culpable delante de la corte suprema; y cualquiera que diga: "Idiota", será reo del infierno de fuego.

(LEB.) But I say to you that everyone who is angry at his brother will be subject to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Stupid fool!’ will be subject to the council, and whoever says, ‘Obstinate fool!’ will be subject to fiery hell.

(LEB (+)) But I say to you that everyone who is angry at his brother will be subject to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Stupid fool!’ [Greek “Raca,” a term of verbal abuse involving lack of intelligence] will be subject to the council, and whoever says, ‘Obstinate fool!’ [Perhaps with the idea of obstinate, godless foolishness; some take the word to be a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew word for “rebel” ( Deut 21:18, 20)] will be subject to fiery hell.

(LITV) But I say to you, Everyone who is angry with his brother without cause shall be liable to the Judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the sanhedrin; but whoever says, Fool! shall be liable to be thrown into the fire of Hell.

(LXX-BYZ) egoG1473 P-1NS deG1161 CONJ legoG3004 V-PAI-1S uminG4771 P-2DP otiG3754 CONJ pasG3956 A-NSM oG3588 T-NSM orgizomenosG3710 V-PPP-NSM toG3588 T-DSM adelphoG80 N-DSM autouG846 P-GSM eikeG1500 ADV enochosG1777 A-NSM estaiG1510 V-FDI-3S teG3588 T-DSF kriseiG2920 N-DSF osG3739 R-NSM dG1161 CONJ anG302 PRT eipeG3004 V-2AAS-3S toG3588 T-DSM adelphoG80 N-DSM autouG846 P-GSM rakaG4469 ARAM enochosG1777 A-NSM estaiG1510 V-FDI-3S toG3588 T-DSN sunedrioG4892 N-DSN osG3739 R-NSM dG1161 CONJ anG302 PRT eipeG3004 V-2AAS-3S moreG3474 A-VSM enochosG1777 A-NSM estaiG1510 V-FDI-3S eisG1519 PREP tenG3588 T-ASF geennanG1067 N-ASF touG3588 T-GSN purosG4442 N-GSN

(MKJV) But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be liable to the judgment. And whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the sanhedrin; but whoever shall say, Fool! shall be liable to be thrown into the fire of hell.

(MLV) But I say to you* that everyone who is angry with his brother without just cause will be liable to the judgment, and whoever says to his brother, <F>You, empty-head, will be liable to the council, and whoever says, <F>You fool, will be liable to the hell of fire.

(MSG) I'm telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder. Carelessly call a brother 'idiot!' and you just might find yourself hauled into court. Thoughtlessly yell 'stupid!' at a sister and you are on the brink of hellfire. The simple moral fact is that words kill.

(NAS77) "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

(NASB) "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

(NASB+) "But I sayG3004 to you that everyoneG3956 who is angryG3710 with his brotherG80 shall be N1guiltyG1777 before R1the courtG2920; and whoeverG3739 G302 saysG3004 to his brotherG80, 'N2You good-for-nothingG4469,' shall be N1guiltyG1777 before N3 R2the supremeG4892 courtG4892; and whoeverG3739 G302 saysG3004, 'You foolG3474,' shall be N1guiltyG1777 enough to go into the N4 R3fieryG4442 hellG1067.

(NET.) But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says 'Fool' will be sent to fiery hell.

(NET) But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother26 will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults27 a brother will be brought before28 the council,29 and whoever says 'Fool'30 will be sent31 to fiery hell.32

(NCV) But I tell you, if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be judged. If you say bad things to a brother or sister, you will be judged by the council. And if you call someone a fool, you will be in danger of the fire of hell.

(NIrV) But here is what I tell you. Do not be angry with your brother. Anyone who is angry with his brother will be judged. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' must stand trial in the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire in hell.

(NIV) But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

(NIV84) But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

(NKJV) But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

(NLT) But I say, if you are even angry with someone [without cause], you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.

(NRSV) But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, 'You fool,' you will be liable to the hell of fire.

(NWT) However, I say to YOU that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; but whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, 'You despicable fool!' will be liable to the fiery Ge·hen'na.

(RSV) But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire.

(RSVA) But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire.

(RV) but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

(RV1960) Pero yo os digo que cualquiera que se enoje contra su hermano, será culpable de juicio; y cualquiera que diga: Necio, a su hermano, será culpable ante el concilio; y cualquiera que le diga: Fatuo, quedará expuesto al infierno de fuego.

(SENT) But I say to you that anyone who’s furious at a fellow human being will face judgment. Also, anyone that says “Fool!” will face the High Court.s And anyone who says, “Stupid!” will face the fire of Gehenna.t

(SRV) Mas yo os digo, que cualquiera que se enojare locamente con su hermano, será culpado del juicio; y cualquiera que dijere á su hermano, Raca, será culpado del concejo; y cualquiera que dijere, Fatuo, será culpado del infierno del fuego.

(TCW) But I’m telling you that even if you don’t kill, but you hate someone so much that if you had the opportunity you would kill him, you’ll be held responsible by the heavenly court the same as if you had committed murder. To go a step further, if you treat someone with contempt because you think you’re better than he is, you’re in danger of losing eternal life.

(LEB) But I say to you that everyone who is angry at his brother will be subject to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Stupid fool!’ [Greek “Raca,” a term of verbal abuse involving lack of intelligence] will be subject to the council, and whoever says, ‘Obstinate fool!’ [Perhaps with the idea of obstinate, godless foolishness; some take the word to be a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew word for “rebel” (Deut 21:18, 20)] will be subject to fiery hell.

(TNIV) But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

(The Scriptures 1998+) “But I say to you that whoever is wroth with his brother without a cause shall be liable to judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raka!’ shall be liable to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to fire of Gehenna.

(WEBBE.) But I tell you, that everyone who is angry with his brother without a cause will be in danger of the judgement; and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ will be in danger of the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna.

(WEBBE) But I tell you, that everyone who is angry with his brother without a cause will be in danger of the judgement; and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ will be in danger of the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna.

(YLT) but I--I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the gehenna of the fire.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: APL] #155214
08/19/13 06:33 PM
08/19/13 06:33 PM
APL  Offline
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Note - of the references above, 2 are by Adventists. One is a translation, the other a paraphrase, the FBV and TCW.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: APL] #155215
08/19/13 06:43 PM
08/19/13 06:43 PM
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Harold Fair  Offline
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You couold have just agreed


Harold T.
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: Green Cochoa] #155217
08/19/13 06:58 PM
08/19/13 06:58 PM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
The Vaudois didn't have Westcott and Hort. They didn't have the Douay-Rheims. They had the "uncorrupted" truth. Their Bible was of the same lineage as the manuscripts of the Majority Text.

Mrs. White affirmed the lineage of the Waldensian Bible. We have inspiration to go on, not mere opinion or majority vote.

That, as opposed to opinion, carries weight. However, I find the arguments of Dean Burgon for the Textus Receptus to be somewhat compelling.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Why the King James Version is Superior... [Re: asygo] #155218
08/19/13 10:00 PM
08/19/13 10:00 PM
Johann  Offline
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Quote:
It was through the power of the Holy Spirit that during the Dark Ages the Waldensian Christians helped to prepare the way for the Reformation. It was the same power that made successful the efforts of the noble men and women who pioneered the way for the establishment of modern missions and for the translation of the Bible into the languages and dialects of all nations and peoples. {AA 53.1}



Quote:
Others arose from century to century to echo this protest. And those early teachers who, traversing different lands and known by various names, bore the character of the Vaudois missionaries, and spread everywhere the knowledge of the gospel, penetrated to the Netherlands. Their doctrines spread rapidly. The Waldensian Bible they translated in verse into the Dutch language. They declared “that there was great advantage in it; no jests, no fables, no trifles, no deceits, but the words of truth; that indeed there was here and there a hard crust, but that the marrow and sweetness of what was good and holy might be easily discovered in it.”—Ibid. 1:14. Thus wrote the friends of the ancient faith, in the twelfth century. {GC 238.1}


The Waldensian Bible was translated into many different languages, not only the King James Version in English.

If Ellen White stated that they only used the Textus Receptus, then I missed it. Where was that?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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