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Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: Mountain Man] #146427
10/30/12 08:48 AM
10/30/12 08:48 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
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Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
I don't know if Paul lived without sinning from day he experienced rebirth. It is certainly possible to do so. The Bible and the SOP are clear about it. Most people, however, fail to live without sinning from the day they experience rebirth. I, for one, have sinned since the day I experienced rebirth. Thank God for the promise in 1 John 2:1-2.


I have lived a sinless perfect life i guess ever since the day I was reborn in 1981, it stayed for about 2-3 years, and then I gradually fell back in to sin. I don't know why, may because of my surrounding where I work as a seaman. But one thing for sure, that it was my best and most happy life having peace with God and my self.

Since then I couldn't maintain this sinless perfect life, there was always a reason that brought me back to a life for the flesh. But I believe that a sinless perfect life is truly possible, for I had experienced it.

I think Matthew 20:1-16 tell us that it is never too late for believers to reach this stage.

The only question that still bothered me, if there is some sinful habits that lead not to death (1 John 5:16), what God would do with this habits? Erased it from the mind of the saved and made them perfect? Also what is sin that lead not to death?

Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: James Saptenno] #146431
10/30/12 01:29 PM
10/30/12 01:29 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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"If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."

Sins of ignorance do not lead unto death. God "winks" at sins of ignorance. Jesus paid the penalty for sins committed in ignorance. Experienced Christians should help new believers discern sins of ignorance in light of the cross.

Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: James Saptenno] #146443
10/30/12 10:35 PM
10/30/12 10:35 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Posts: 3,613
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Originally Posted By: James Saptenno

I have lived a sinless perfect life i guess ever since the day I was reborn in 1981, it stayed for about 2-3 years, and then I gradually fell back in to sin. I don't know why, may because of my surrounding where I work as a seaman. But one thing for sure, that it was my best and most happy life having peace with God and my self.


So you went 3 years without sinning but deny the Spirit of Prophecy? Are you sure you know what perfection is?

Perfection is living in the faith of Jesus, His merits covering you completely, which opens the storehouse of truth which would NEVER DENY THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY like you do on other websites.

Paul did not deny the Spirit of Prophecy, in fact he was a conduit for God. If you deny the Spirit of Prophecy and say that you do not sin, you are calling God a liar.

So is that what you are doing Mr Saptenno? Are you saying you were perfect for three years without the Spirit of Prophecy?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: Mountain Man] #146445
10/31/12 06:13 AM
10/31/12 06:13 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
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Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
"If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."

Sins of ignorance do not lead unto death. God "winks" at sins of ignorance. Jesus paid the penalty for sins committed in ignorance. Experienced Christians should help new believers discern sins of ignorance in light of the cross.


Thanks.

But a bit more clearer will you?

What kind of ignorance? Ignoring parents? ignoring the law? Ignoring God?

Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: James Saptenno] #146458
10/31/12 05:10 PM
10/31/12 05:10 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The word "ignore" does not mean ignorance. Sins of ignorance are sins people commit without realizing it. They have no idea it is a sin. For example, ignorantly breaking the Sabbath.

Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: Mountain Man] #146459
10/31/12 07:52 PM
10/31/12 07:52 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
Brother Saptenno, since I am married to a woman from Indonesia I know how difficult it is to translate between the languages.

Ignorance means to be unaware. To ignore means to not pay attention to.

Ignorance translated to Indonesian is; ketidaktahuan, or kebodohan.

Ignore is; mengabaikan or abaikan.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: Mountain Man] #146469
11/01/12 03:19 AM
11/01/12 03:19 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The word "ignore" does not mean ignorance. Sins of ignorance are sins people commit without realizing it. They have no idea it is a sin. For example, ignorantly breaking the Sabbath.


OK, clear. Thanks.

Then those who were and are not a Sabbath keeper, for this special condition, will be granted pardon universally?

Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: jamesonofthunder] #146470
11/01/12 03:21 AM
11/01/12 03:21 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
Brother Saptenno, since I am married to a woman from Indonesia I know how difficult it is to translate between the languages.

Ignorance means to be unaware. To ignore means to not pay attention to.

Ignorance translated to Indonesian is; ketidaktahuan, or kebodohan.

Ignore is; mengabaikan or abaikan.


Very well pak, thanks.

Are you still using a dictionary, or in fact you speak and wrote indonesian language? Just curios.

Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: James Saptenno] #146471
11/01/12 03:33 AM
11/01/12 03:33 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
So, sinning in 1 John 5:16, as you said is sinning of ignorance that lead not to death, is not the same sin as in James 4:17, which is doing not what we knew is good?

I think it is the same.

Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: James Saptenno] #146472
11/01/12 07:48 AM
11/01/12 07:48 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015

3500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
Are you really Indonesian?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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