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Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet?
[Re: Rosangela]
#152039
04/21/13 12:16 AM
04/21/13 12:16 AM
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FORMER-SDA Active Member 2018 Banned
Senior Member
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
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Ok. In order to have an answer to your question, I'm sorry. Perhaps I did not make myself clear. This is my question...to you. Why would you possibly trust your eternal Salvation and understanding of Scripture to someone with a mental disorder? Green Cochoa wanted to know why I held a dim view of Ellen White; this is why he started this thread. I have listed some of my concerns. Pick one.
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet?
[Re: JAK]
#152040
04/21/13 01:42 AM
04/21/13 01:42 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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This is my question...to you. Why would you possibly trust your eternal Salvation and understanding of Scripture to someone with a mental disorder? I don't trust my salvation to Ellen White, but I’m grateful for her writings, for they have helped me a lot in my Christian walk. As I said, I've read much of her writings, I've tested them, I've discussed them, and I don't believe at all that they are the product of a mental disorder. On the contrary, I'm convinced that she is a true prophet of God. So, your reality and mine are completely different. Well, if that's ok we could begin with the discrepancies you see in her theology.
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Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet?
[Re: Rosangela]
#152043
04/21/13 08:37 AM
04/21/13 08:37 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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B) If it is from God, it is Inspired. post #151779 (If it isn't inspired, it isn't from God, right?) My statement is simply the reverse of your statement: If it isn't from God, it isn't inspired, or, if it IS from God it IS inspired. This is the only statement I have "altered" but only to state it in the reverse. There is indeed a mistake here. "If it isn't inspired, it isn't from God." Of course he can answer for himself, but in the context of post #151779, I think what GC meant to say was “If it isn’t inspired, it isn’t God’s Word.” Indeed, Rosangela, context can make a big difference here. I was speaking of inspiration within the context of the scriptures. If they are or were not inspired by God, they would not be from God...because obviously, if they were from God they would have been inspired. (See 2 Timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1:21.) This one goes both ways within this context. But when we adjust the context, the lines blur, and I can no longer be certain that we are still speaking truth. For example, if we acknowledge that all wisdom and knowledge originates with God, can we say that God inspired the atomic bomb by giving to men this knowledge? Atomic bombs were not the context of what I was addressing. I was addressing scripture. The Bible says that " all scripture is given by inspiration of God." The only way for part of the Bible to fall outside of the definition of "inspired" would then be for it to not be considered "scripture." This is why those who give their own opinions relative to levels of inspiration are logically driven to the precipice of rejecting the Bible entirely as uninspired. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#152044
04/21/13 01:29 PM
04/21/13 01:29 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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GC,
Yes, context is all. I agree with your position.
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Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#152099
04/24/13 02:17 PM
04/24/13 02:17 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
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Not sure what erroneous facts you are talking about.
There are quite a few minor discrepancies in the Bible. Most notable is Jesus' prediction of Peter's denial. Did Matthew, Luke, and John record it incorrectly against God's will? Or, did the Holy Spirit permit it. I believe He permitted it, which, in my mind, means He was in control. He could have prevented it, but He didn't. He allowed it. Thus, it is inspired (whatever the Holy Spirit does is inspired). The erroneous facts are not inspired. The fact the Holy Spirit permitted it to be a part of the Bible is what is inspired. Without much to go on, here is what I found: Mt 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Mr 14:30 And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Lu 22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
Joh 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice. Seems to be all the same to me.
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Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#152168
04/28/13 01:14 AM
04/28/13 01:14 AM
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Active Member 2019 Died February 12, 2019
2500+ Member
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
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Elle, You'll have to be more careful in your use of the scriptures if you wish to convince me. Regarding the "false prophets," for example, you did not fully quote the passage that would give clarity to it, and you have claimed that God sent the false prophets. Where did the Bible say this? 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn [you] away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. I didn’t quote the text as I have quoted this and brought this point many times before in this forums and nobody paid much attention, but I’m glad you brought it up. Where does the Lord say he sent false prophet in this text? I have underlined, marked it in red and bolded where. See above. The Lord takes credit of the event by saying very explicitly that it is HE who proveth you with this "false" prophet so it will be reveal whether or not you will follow the Lord or not. We both know the Lord already knows your heart and your ways and how far you are from His ways. So the test is not for Him, but it is for you so you will come to see your own heart as it’s corruption and idolations is hidden to you. If God sent a false prophet, it would be good. But I don't believe God calls this good, nor did He send such, according to the passage you quoted. For sure false prophets are good and very important for our own personal growth to come to know our own heart condition, how far we are from the Lord’s ways, and how little we know His laws and His ways. It was good when the Lord sent Hananiah in the time the Lord sent Babylon to conquer Judah and bring them into captivity. The house of Judah needed to hear a true prophet(Jeremiah) and a false prophet(Hananiah). [Just a side note, as far as I know, no where in the OT calls anyone a “false prophet”. It is only in the NT there is a differentiation between the two. Maybe Hananiah spoke some words of truth in the past, we do not know, but we know he was a recognized prophet in those days.] This is often the case with all of us when facing a decision we hear two voices. From Jeremiah 33 and other texts the Lord wants us to grow into men and woman able to stand on our own two feet knowing for ourselves His voice and walking in according to all His laws (and not just the 10Cs) for it is via the Laws of Moses truth(heart and mind of the Lord) is defined and the foundation of the plan of salvation is laid out. We are all personally responsible to test what we hear for ourselves against the only foundation given to us. And often, we need to be tested by a false prophet to reveal us our own heart. That happened to me so many times and today it got me to studying more indept His laws by which I’m still very far from understanding them. For the case of Judah, since they didn’t study the laws and often relied what others said as we often do ourselves today; they didn’t recognize Jeremiah as being the true prophet and that generation suffered serious consequences for that. However, later generations found how far Judah was from the Lord’s ways and repented and learn their own heart susceptibility of idolization(Ez 14:1-11) which distorts what we see and hear and deviates us from the Lord. Why would God tell a prophet to give a false prophecy, and then tell the people who heard it to kill that prophet? Would that be fair? But that is what you seem to have implied must be the case, and certainly would be the case, if God had truly sent the false prophet. The children of Israel refused the Spirit of the Lord at Pentecost (see post #152166 here), so the law was given to them in a language(physical language with symbols as types and shadows) they could understand since they could not understand spiritual things yet. The false prophet that was meant to be put to death in that TYPE was the man of sin still alive in you who tells you to not follow that voice that says to walk in the Lord’s ways. The new man in you(seed of Christ growing inside you) will never sin and will always speak the truth to you. So it is the old man of sin that is the false prophet that needs to be put to death, not the person that the Lord has sent to reveal to you your heart. Also, if nobody listen to a physical false prophet(outside of you) by which many can be qualify as such oftentimes including myself as we all are far from knowing all the truth…..and so there are many false prophets today…… then by not taking heed to their false words or teachings, you are putting them(their voice, their spirit, their seed) to death in your mind. It is when you take head to their words and follow it that you keep that prophet alive which have "evil" consequence in your life. However these "evil" consequences could become "good" later on if it brings you to seeing your own heart. This is what that law means in spiritual realities and application. Regarding discipline from the Lord, I fully believe it to be good. Just because something may strike us as unpleasant or painful does not make it "bad." It was a very painful experience for the entire Universe to witness the excruciating death of our Savior Jesus Christ. Does that mean it was "bad?" Did Christ "sin" by bringing something "bad" to earth in giving us this example of God's Love? Of a certain not.
God loves those whom He disciplines. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend." Jesus is our Friend. I think you refuse to accept plain scripture. Do you consider “bad” or “evil” when the Lord sent Babylon(His servant) to take a remnant of Judah captive and destroying the rest? That was my point that often many will blind those type of plain scriptures in the Bible blaming all on Satan or the “evil” he has supposively brought when scripture is clear that it is the Lord that has brought this “evil”. Most fail to understand why the Lord has sent Babylon, that barbarian beastly king, in the first place. Do you consider “bad” of “evil” Mystery Babylon today or the Catholic Empire in the time of the inquisition? Are we going to continue what Israel did in the past by pointing our fingers at Babylon and labeling them as “bad” or “evil” when it was the Lord that gaved them power and sent them to correct us and to discipline us? So why did the Lord had to send ancient Babylon at the first place to correct Israel? One main reason, it was because Israel loved their slaves and wanted to keep them as perpetual slaves and refused to restore them, refused to set them free every 7th year and refused to cancel all their debt during the Jubilee and return their land to them according to the law of the Lord. That’s why the Lord had to bring the next lesson of discipline to give them what they gave to their own slaves and made them slaves themselves. By the same measure, you will be judge. No GC, what you consider as “good” or “evil” is not what the Lord has defined as “good” or “evil” in the Bible.
Blessings
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Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet?
[Re: kland]
#152184
04/29/13 04:39 AM
04/29/13 04:39 AM
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Posting New Member
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 13
UK
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I agree with you, there are not discrepancies...just a very basic understanding of sentence structure[Grammar]is required.
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Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet?
[Re: Rosangela]
#152185
04/29/13 05:16 AM
04/29/13 05:16 AM
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Posting New Member
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 13
UK
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Having being brought up a roman catholic; the spirit of prophecy was very instrumental in my leaving Catholicism and becoming an SDA. To this end, I will always be forever grateful for the vital role it has played in my life and eternal destiny.
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Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet?
[Re: Augustus]
#152187
04/29/13 05:21 AM
04/29/13 05:21 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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Having being brought up a roman catholic; the spirit of prophecy was very instrumental in my leaving Catholicism and becoming an SDA. To this end, I will always be forever grateful for the vital role it has played in my life and eternal destiny. Praise the Lord for this testimony. There will be countless souls in Heaven that are fruits of the prophetic ministry of Mrs. White. God bless, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#178788
12/19/15 01:39 AM
12/19/15 01:39 AM
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Bumping this, as it was referred to in a very recent post in another thread.
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