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Critics, stand for what you believe.
#160620
01/20/14 01:49 PM
01/20/14 01:49 PM
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OP
SDA Chaplain Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
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There once was a SDA congregation that was losing members. A new pastor rode into town with a vision of a future, vibrant, growing congregation. The leadership embraced that vision and asked him to stay.
He was take-charge, energetic and hit the ground running. He consulted with members as to what they really wanted and how they thought it could be accomplished. He visited in homes and talked to leadership. He asked for people who were in agreement with a developed, common perception as to what was needed and how to accomplish it to join the team. He made himself available. In the initial days of his coming to the congregation he was at the church every day, available to talk to people who wanted to talk to him. Yes, he also visited members. This was a change from a previous practice in which the church had been seldom open and available to people.
Then the letter came. It was biting, hurtful and personal. It outlined specific faults in his program and demanded full compliance within a short period of time and failure to comply would result in this family never returning to worship with that congregation. The letter was unsigned. The writer did not have the moral courage to let the pastor know who they really were.
Without this identification, no resolution could occur. The pastor and congregational leadership could not meet with them in an effort to resolve issues. Misunderstandings as to what was really going on could not be corrected. The council of Matthew 7 could not be followed which is that people should get together and talk.
People in the U.S. have the freedom to worship where and how they please. Members of a SDA congregation have the freedom to leave as they wish. They can seek spiritual enrichment outside of a specific congregation. If they chose, they can seek it on their own.
The failure to identify who had written the letter indicated that the writer really did not want to resolve the issues. It indicated that the writer was not willing to work with the pastor of reach an agreeable resolution. It was a refusal to participate in reconciliation. In short, it appeared to be the action of a coward.
The gospel message tells us that Christians must take stands for what is right. It tells us that is not an easy thing to do and that there are consequences when we take such stands. God calls on people to take positions that have consequences. The writer of that letter apparently was not willing to take a personal stand for what they believed to be right.
As I read the many posts on the Internet forums in which people posting under pennames criticize the denomination and its leadership, I think of what I have just posted above. Yes, in the freedoms that we have in the U.S. one is free to post under a penname. I would not take away that right. But, all to often those who so post are not really listened to. After all, why really listen to one who is not willing to take a personally known position and is unwilling to participate in a process of reconciliation?
I will be the first to say that those who so post may raise valid points which need to be considered. But, by so posting they force of their argument is blunted.
Gregory May God's will be done.
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Re: Critics, stand for what you believe.
[Re: Gregory]
#160622
01/20/14 04:18 PM
01/20/14 04:18 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Anonymity is a safety precaution on the Internet. A lot of whack jobs out there. Wouldn't want them to show up at work or the house. I assume that's why your profile does not include your last name or where you live. Smart move. Your insights and opinions are valued on this forum just the same.
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Re: Critics, stand for what you believe.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#160625
01/20/14 05:01 PM
01/20/14 05:01 PM
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OP
SDA Chaplain Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
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I thought that everyone here knew that my last name was Matthews.
No, I have never suggested that people should post their address and phone number.
Knowing where one lives is much different from knowing the name of the person.
Last edited by Gregory; 01/20/14 05:02 PM.
Gregory May God's will be done.
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Re: Critics, stand for what you believe.
[Re: Gregory]
#160627
01/20/14 05:28 PM
01/20/14 05:28 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Right, Gregory. One reason I am losing interest in this forum is that too many people seem to be ashamed of their identity, or they know that what they stand for is difficult to verify.
You, Gregory, have never hidden your identity, that I am aware of. In my country, Johann is the name I am listed by in the phone book and any directory. In most cases your last name here is based on your father's first name, just like in the Bible. This does not apply to me because I was not born in Iceland, but in Denmark. That is why I am listed as Thorvaldsson, because my grandfather's first name was Thorvaldur, and in Denmark I had to have the same last name as my father.
A woman here does not usually change her maiden name when she gets married, but remains a daughter of her father as long as she lives. This way we can follow our ancestry for many centuries. Mine goes back to a Norwegian king who lived a thousand years back.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Critics, stand for what you believe.
[Re: Johann]
#160628
01/20/14 05:41 PM
01/20/14 05:41 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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I should also make it clear that some of those who are not posting here under their own name have readily identified themselves through PMs. That creates trust.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Critics, stand for what you believe.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#160644
01/20/14 09:20 PM
01/20/14 09:20 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Anonymity is a safety precaution on the Internet. A lot of whack jobs out there. Wouldn't want them to show up at work or the house. I assume that's why your profile does not include your last name or where you live. Smart move. Your insights and opinions are valued on this forum just the same. What MM is saying is valid though. There is something called ID theft. To be on the safe side, your first and last names and general location is sufficient. Anyone providing more than that among people he has NEVER met is not acting wisely as Jesus cautioned. ///
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Re: Critics, stand for what you believe.
[Re: James Peterson]
#160654
01/21/14 01:31 AM
01/21/14 01:31 AM
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OP
SDA Chaplain Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
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A general reply:
Note that in context, the beginning part of my post was a person who wrote a letter to a congregational pastor without giving a name.
As to the Internet: Some people attempt to evade restrictions and to post under several pennames. They then get into arguments with themselves.
Gregory May God's will be done.
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Re: Critics, stand for what you believe.
[Re: Gregory]
#160687
01/21/14 01:48 PM
01/21/14 01:48 PM
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Active Member 2019 Died February 12, 2019
2500+ Member
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
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Good post Gregory. Cowardness and lack of seeking reconciliation is a real serious problem even when individuals identify themselves. To sum up ... too many are accusers of the brethrens. About 90% of the accusations are to a brother that didn't even sin againt them personally. Accusation are only suppose to be conducted in the way the Lord has commanded in the Law and Jesus defined that law further with 3 steps. Beyond these, we shouldn't be passing judgment and I believe that the law even stipulate that it is forbidden to pass judgment on someone who has paid his debt fully.
So many accuse to pass judgment with no intention to be reconciled or to restore a brother. It is just out of a plain bad habit that is quite prevalent in Christianity and not corrected. That's where we are and no easy task to resolve either; however, I do believe the Lord will start addressing this problem amongs others during the Millennium.
In terms of identity, I believe there could be reasons to not reveal it. Mine is not reveal, not because I am a coward nor someone who run away from reconciliation. It is because I am a single woman with children with a unique name that my address can be easily trace down by a simple google. The Forums are public to the world and I want to insure a safe haven for my children.
Maybe I should still reveal it and trust that the Lord will protect us?
However, I do believe that men should provide their identity so they would be more accountable for their words.
Blessings
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Re: Critics, stand for what you believe.
[Re: Elle]
#160688
01/21/14 02:49 PM
01/21/14 02:49 PM
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OP
SDA Chaplain Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
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Elle:
Actually the Internet was not my central focus.
I started my post with a comment about letter sent to a pastor. Then I switched to Internet critics who are not willing to take a stand on what they beleive.
I certainly beleive that there are safety issues associated with the Internet.
I am sometimes considered to be a critic of the denomination. This denominaiton has the authority to remove me from my position as a Federal Chaplain. I have never felt in danger of them doing so. One reason for that is that the denomination has never felt that I was hiding anything from them.
I carry this same type of relationship into my job for the Federal government.
Our hospital Director is a female. I am only a Staff Chaplain and I am not a supervisor. At times I meet with her to tell her what I think of what is happening in the hospital. I have told her that she is wrong. A few months ago I fired off an early morning e-mail to her and told her that she was doing an injustice to one of our female employees that whould never have happened if that employee had been a male.
Nothing happened to me.
In the world around us people respect and consider advice that comes form people who are willing to take a stand for what they beleive to be right.
This hospital recently hired a new #2 person who is next in line to the Director. I wrote to her, before she ever came and told her that I wanted some time with her to share with her my vision of the next 10 years for the hospital. She wrote back and told me to make an appointment.
I did and I asked for 30 minutes. I spent 40 minutes with her. She mainly listened. Yes, I was organized, had a written agenda and all of the other things that a person in her posiiton would expect from someone who requested an appointment with them.
I say again: Critics should be willing to take a personal stand for what they beleive to be right. If there are consequences for doing so, they should be willing to accept them.
After all, in End Time, God calls for people to take a stand for what they beleive.
Last edited by Gregory; 01/21/14 02:51 PM.
Gregory May God's will be done.
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Re: Critics, stand for what you believe.
[Re: Gregory]
#160727
01/22/14 01:59 AM
01/22/14 01:59 AM
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SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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There once was a SDA congregation that was losing members. A new pastor rode into town with a vision of a future, vibrant, growing congregation. The leadership embraced that vision and asked him to stay.
He was take-charge, energetic and hit the ground running. He consulted with members as to what they really wanted and how they thought it could be accomplished. He visited in homes and talked to leadership. He asked for people who were in agreement with a developed, common perception as to what was needed and how to accomplish it to join the team. He made himself available. In the initial days of his coming to the congregation he was at the church every day, available to talk to people who wanted to talk to him. Yes, he also visited members. This was a change from a previous practice in which the church had been seldom open and available to people.
Then the letter came. It was biting, hurtful and personal. It outlined specific faults in his program and demanded full compliance within a short period of time and failure to comply would result in this family never returning to worship with that congregation. The letter was unsigned. The writer did not have the moral courage to let the pastor know who they really were.
Without this identification, no resolution could occur. The pastor and congregational leadership could not meet with them in an effort to resolve issues. Misunderstandings as to what was really going on could not be corrected. The council of Matthew 7 could not be followed which is that people should get together and talk.
People in the U.S. have the freedom to worship where and how they please. Members of a SDA congregation have the freedom to leave as they wish. They can seek spiritual enrichment outside of a specific congregation. If they chose, they can seek it on their own.
The failure to identify who had written the letter indicated that the writer really did not want to resolve the issues. It indicated that the writer was not willing to work with the pastor of reach an agreeable resolution. It was a refusal to participate in reconciliation. In short, it appeared to be the action of a coward.
The gospel message tells us that Christians must take stands for what is right. It tells us that is not an easy thing to do and that there are consequences when we take such stands. God calls on people to take positions that have consequences. The writer of that letter apparently was not willing to take a personal stand for what they believed to be right.
As I read the many posts on the Internet forums in which people posting under pennames criticize the denomination and its leadership, I think of what I have just posted above. Yes, in the freedoms that we have in the U.S. one is free to post under a penname. I would not take away that right. But, all to often those who so post are not really listened to. After all, why really listen to one who is not willing to take a personally known position and is unwilling to participate in a process of reconciliation?
I will be the first to say that those who so post may raise valid points which need to be considered. But, by so posting they force of their argument is blunted.
I am not buying it. Another such position I have never respected is; "It's not what he said, but how he said it!" If the points are accurate, they should be taken seriously. Everybody will need to "take their stand" when it is necessary, but privacy needs to be respected as well. Many writers in history have used pen-names and have made a real contribution. So, you whole point is moot Gregory. It is not about you, and it is not about me. It is so hard in the SDA Church to live this way because personal attacks and "sources" are revered far to highly. I have a thread about being banned from an SDA website without cause. And yet, it is still not about me! Yet, that point is never understood correctly. This is why I believe these pen-names need to be recognized the same as those who may use their real names. I hope I was clear.
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