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Does the Bible distinguish between capital punishment and murder?
#161366
02/06/14 05:56 PM
02/06/14 05:56 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2} As anyone can read, Jesus kills with impunity. Jesus commanded Moses to kill with impunity. Obviously Jesus is not guilty of murder. The difference between kill and murder is clear and distinct. Jesus said, "Thou shalt do no murder." The Bible also says, "For sedition and murder was cast into prison". "Let none of you suffer as a murderer." "No murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." "Murderers . . . shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." The following passage makes the distinction abundantly clear: Numbers 35:15 These six cities shall be a refuge, [both] for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither. 35:16 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he [is] a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 35:17 And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he [is] a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 35:18 Or [if] he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he [is] a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 35:19 The revenger of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him. 35:20 But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die; 35:21 Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote [him] shall surely be put to death; [for] he [is] a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him. 35:22 But if he thrust him suddenly without enmity, or have cast upon him any thing without laying of wait, 35:23 Or with any stone, wherewith a man may die, seeing [him] not, and cast [it] upon him, that he die, and [was] not his enemy, neither sought his harm: 35:24 Then the congregation shall judge between the slayer and the revenger of blood according to these judgments: 35:25 And the congregation shall deliver the slayer out of the hand of the revenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall abide in it unto the death of the high priest, which was anointed with the holy oil. 35:26 But if the slayer shall at any time come without the border of the city of his refuge, whither he was fled; 35:27 And the revenger of blood find him without the borders of the city of his refuge, and the revenger of blood kill the slayer; he shall not be guilty of blood: 35:28 Because he should have remained in the city of his refuge until the death of the high priest: but after the death of the high priest the slayer shall return into the land of his possession. 35:29 So these [things] shall be for a statute of judgment unto you throughout your generations in all your dwellings. Murder is unlawful. Whereas killing the murderer is lawful - it is not considered murder. "He shall not be guilty."
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Re: Does the Bible distinguish between capital punishment and murder?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#161367
02/06/14 06:25 PM
02/06/14 06:25 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Romans 12:17-21 17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18 If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place to wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, said the Lord. 20 Therefore if your enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing you shall heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Matthew 5:21-22 21 You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:38-48 38 You have heard that it has been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say to you, That you resist not evil: but whoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue you at the law, and take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever shall compel you to go a mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him that asks you, and from him that would borrow of you turn not you away. 43 You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if you salute your brothers only, what do you more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
1 John 3:11-15 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And why slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. 13 Marvel not, my brothers, if the world hate you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brothers. He that loves not his brother stays in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does the Bible distinguish between capital punishment and murder?
[Re: APL]
#161369
02/06/14 06:57 PM
02/06/14 06:57 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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My study on this topic can be found HERE.Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does the Bible distinguish between capital punishment and murder?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#161370
02/06/14 07:52 PM
02/06/14 07:52 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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"Christ had entered the world as Satan’s destroyer and the Redeemer of the captives bound by his power." {Con 36.1}
How do you explain this APL?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does the Bible distinguish between capital punishment and murder?
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#161371
02/06/14 07:59 PM
02/06/14 07:59 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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APL doesn't explain such things, JSOT. He cherishes his incorrect view too much, so he changes the topic.
He'll be sure to say something like "What about this...(insert example appearing to favor his idea here)?"
Truth is best, and often only, understood by one who is teachable.
Solemn thoughts.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does the Bible distinguish between capital punishment and murder?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#161373
02/06/14 08:17 PM
02/06/14 08:17 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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No one is denying what the OT says. The mistake that is made is making it the gospel rule, God's ideal will, failing to see it is God meeting the people where they were. Jesus in the NT said that we are not to fight was not espousing a new rule, but a revelation of the truth as it was in the beginning. Why do want to stay in darkness? "Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son!"
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does the Bible distinguish between capital punishment and murder?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#161374
02/06/14 08:34 PM
02/06/14 08:34 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Very solomn thoughts.
I found this quote that expresses the same sentiment.
"There are those who say that nothing, not even insects, should be killed. God has not entrusted any such message to his people. It is possible to stretch the command “Thou shalt not kill” to any limit; but it is not according to sound reasoning to do this. Those who do it have not learned in the school of Christ. {3SM 329.1}
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does the Bible distinguish between capital punishment and murder?
[Re: APL]
#161375
02/06/14 08:36 PM
02/06/14 08:36 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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No one is denying what the OT says. The mistake that is made is making it the gospel rule, God's ideal will, failing to see it is God meeting the people where they were. Jesus in the NT said that we are not to fight was not espousing a new rule, but a revelation of the truth as it was in the beginning. Why do want to stay in darkness? "Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son!" If we are not to fight, why does God fight and command us at times to fight? It is true that you don't generally deny what the Old Testament says. However, you deny that what it says is really good. You believe the New Testament to be superior. This is a mistake. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does the Bible distinguish between capital punishment and murder?
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#161376
02/06/14 08:39 PM
02/06/14 08:39 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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APL and Kland say that God does not destroy the wicked because that would make God guilty of committing a sin.
Well God has commanded us not to judge or condemn anyone either saying we would be destroyed in hell fire if we do it. So is God guilty of sin for condemning and judging?
"Jesus says that whoever shall condemn his brother as an apostate or a despiser of God shows that he himself is worthy of the same condemnation. {RC 70.4} ... He who stands as a mouthpiece for God should not utter words which even the Majesty of heaven would not use when contending with Satan. We are to leave with God the work of judging and condemning.—Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing, 55-58. {RC 70.6}
God is not guilty of sin by condemning sinners to hell or by destroying the wicked by fire.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does the Bible distinguish between capital punishment and murder?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#161377
02/06/14 08:43 PM
02/06/14 08:43 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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Christ as manifested to the patriarchs, as symbolized in the sacrificial service, as portrayed in the law, and as revealed by the prophets, is the riches of the Old Testament. Christ in His life, His death, and His resurrection, Christ as He is manifested by the Holy Spirit, is the treasure of the New Testament. Our Saviour, the outshining of the Father's glory, is both the Old and the New. . . . The Old Testament sheds light upon the New, and the New upon the Old. Each is a revelation of the glory of God in Christ. Both present truths that will continually reveal new depths of meaning to the earnest seeker. {FLB 12.5} "And they [the Old Testament scriptures] are they which testify of Me." -- Jesus. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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