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Re: Does the Holy Spirit Have a Physical Form? [Re: Daryl] #162185
02/22/14 05:33 PM
02/22/14 05:33 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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He is "as much a person as God is a person". I look forward to hugging the Holy Spirit in Heaven.

Re: Does the Holy Spirit Have a Physical Form? [Re: Daryl] #162259
02/24/14 12:20 AM
02/24/14 12:20 AM
cephalopod  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Signs of the Times, 1912, Vol 39 # 32


3829 — Is The Holy Spirit a Personality?

Question:
Can't we say that the Holy Spirit is a
personality, as long as the personal pronoun
is attributed to it? T. A. Z.

Answer:
The use of the personal pronoun is not of itself proof that the Holy Spirit is a personality, and yet the work of the Spirit is the work of a personality. By the Spirit both the Father and the Son come personally to every soul that receives the Spirit. In that wonderful sense which no human being can comprehend, the Spirit comes to each soul as a personality. And yet it does not have what we would call human personality of being in one place only at one time, that is, such personality as has our Lord Himself — in one place as He is in no other place. The Holy Spirit may be in any number of places at one and the same time, bringing the special presence of God in each of those places. In the office of the "Signs of the Times" there are fourteen different telephones all connecting with the manager. The manager may connect all these with him at one and the same time. He could issue a general order so that the foreman of each department could hear his voice at the same time. In a way he is personally present in every department. Every department hears his voice. The marvelous invention of the telephone makes him present in fifteen different places at the same time. So it is that God's Spirit makes the Father and the Son present in as many different places as God may direct, at one and the same time. We know somewhat of the working. We understand how it is to some extent of the Lord's ways and methods. We see the effects, but we know almost nothing of the nature and the power that Infinity uses to communicate with man. Let us be willing to leave it there. In some instances the Spirit is represented as the great life of God. In some it is spoken of as a power that is poured out and shed forth. To the individual it comes as the representative of the personal God. Therefore it may be spoken of as a personality, and looking at it from another view-point, as not a personality


And again,


[quote= Review and Herald, Sept 6, 1892]

Is God a Spirit?

Question:
If God is a spirit (John 4:24) and at the same time a person (Dan 7:9) would not the same reasoning prove that the Holy Spirit is a PERSON as referred to in John 4: 26?

Answer:
NO - For God is elsewhere described and represented as a Person; but the Holy Spirit is not. The fact that the Holy Spirit is personified John 14 and thus spoken of as acting in a personal and individual manner does NOT prove it to be a person any more than the fact that love is spoken of in 1 Cor 13 as performing certain acts and exercising certain emotions, prove that charity or love is a person



"Personality of God" was a fundamental Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists when SP was alive...
...That doctrine required fealty that God the Father was a flesh & bone hominid God.
...With all the members, organs and parts of a perfect man.
...Same with Michael & Lucifer the archangels.

The Holy Spirit is not classified as such.




Last edited by cephalopod; 02/24/14 12:21 AM.
Re: Does the Holy Spirit Have a Physical Form? [Re: Daryl] #162272
02/24/14 09:53 AM
02/24/14 09:53 AM
dedication  Online Content
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One of the oldest errors in the world is mankinds' persistent desire to reduce God to some force he can manipulate in order to increase his own powers.

The whole NEW AGE movement is built on precisely the concept of the "Great Force" to be "tapped into" of "having god inside" as a force quite devoid of personality, and if you only tap into the force you can supposedly become godlike yourself. It is the essence of Eastern religion.

Pantheisim has tried to gain recognition in our church, and had the founders earlier grasped the fullness of the Godhead: three persons in one, the pantheistic problem that caused considerable controversy, would probably never have been the problem it was.

The HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON, the third PERSON of the ONE GODHEAD. He is unencumbered with humanity, and therefore omnipresent, but a person none the less Who comes and teaches, and convicts people of their sin and leads them into truth.

To take away the personality of the Holy Spirit, and divest Him of personhood and make "it" merely "the God power" or "the Christ power", is the very basis of Pantheism, (God in everything) and leads to Christianized New Age spiritualistic falsehoods.

The THREE PERSONS GODHEAD doctrine recognizes the Holy Spirit as a PERSON. The third person of the Godhead. Even though the Greek word for "SPIRIT" is a "neuter" gender, (IT) the Bible writers use the masculine pronouns (HE, HIS) to replace the neuter form Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26; 16:13) even though syntactical that was inconsistent.

Also the HOLY SPIRIT is endowed with very "personal" characteristics like:
Intelligence and knowledge, feelings and teaching ability.

(John 14:26) "for He will teach you all things".
1 Cor. 2:13,14 He teaches us spiritual things, helping us to discern spiritual things
(1 Cor. 12:11),He makes decisions --deciding who gets what spiritual gift
He has emotions and can be grieved (Eph. 4:30)
Romans 8:26 "The Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

(John 16:8) He convicts of sin, of righteousness and judgment
Rev. 22:17
He invites people to "come" (Matt. 12:31, Mark 3:29) He can be sinned and blasphemed against, which can lead to the unpardonable sin
"The Spirit Himself bears witness.... that we are children of God (Romans 8:16

He speaks (Acts 8:29)
teaches (Luke 12:12)
reveals (Luke 2:26)
testifies (Acts 20:23)
searches (1 Cor. 2:10,11)
He sets people apart for service and sends them on their way (Acts 13:2,4)
He commands and guides (Acts 8:29)
He declares things to come (John 16:13)

Romans 8:5 He sets our minds on the things of God
Romans 8:13 Through the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the body

Peter says:-- Acts 5:3-5 Why did you lie to the Holy Spirit, ...you have lied to God.

Hebrews 9:14 says the Holy Spirit is eternal.

Romans 15:30 says the Holy Spirit loves.

1 Cor. 12:11 says the Holy Spirit divides gifts to every man as HE wills.

He has a will. He has emotions. He has a mind.

Romans 8:27 He that searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because He makes intercession....

In John 14-16 Christ referred to the Holy Spirit 24 times with personal PRONOUNS. HE, HIM. He addresses the Holy Spirit as a person, and treats Him as a person. He calls Him the Paraclete, which is a title which could only be held by a person.

The Paraclete, is "ANOTHER Counselor" (John 14:16) who will come and instruct.

"The Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you all things (14:26)

"When the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who comes forth from the Father, He will bear witness to me (15:26-27)

"When the Spirit of truth comes, HE will guide you into all truth, for HE will... glorify ME, for HE will take what is mine and declare it to you (16:13-14)


The Spirit is all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour.

Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. DA 671

There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized EV. 316

Re: Does the Holy Spirit Have a Physical Form? [Re: Daryl] #162274
02/24/14 03:22 PM
02/24/14 03:22 PM
cephalopod  Offline
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Washington, USA
dedication, do you accept "The Personality of God" Doctrine as taught by SP and the other Pioneers?

Re: Does the Holy Spirit Have a Physical Form? [Re: Daryl] #162279
02/24/14 04:13 PM
02/24/14 04:13 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Dedication, nice study. Thank you.

Re: Does the Holy Spirit Have a Physical Form? [Re: Daryl] #162306
02/25/14 12:53 AM
02/25/14 12:53 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Yes, dedication, nice biblically based post.

TY


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does the Holy Spirit Have a Physical Form? [Re: Daryl] #190150
07/17/19 09:44 PM
07/17/19 09:44 PM
dedication  Online Content
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The personality of God.
There is something troubling -- that a title emphasizing the personality of God would deny the personality of the Spirit.

Just a brief overview of the early Pioneer's view on the personality (or lack of personality) of the Holy Spirit.
For the most part they taught that the Holy Spirit was NOT a "person" but a divine influence or manifestation of the presence or power of the Father or the Son.

They taught that Christ and the Father had physical bodies and those bodies did not possess omnipresence. Father and Son dwelt in a literal place called heaven. The omnipresence was their "spirit" "a mysterious force" pervading the universe.

Uriah Smith was probably the biggest promoter of this theory and clung to it even while others started moving away from it.

Originally Posted by pioneer quotes
Thus U. Smith writes: "God is omnipresent; and how can this be, if he is a person? - Answer: He has a representative, his Holy Spirit, by which he is ever present and ever felt in all his universe". {1884 UrS, MND 26.1}
"But respecting this Spirit, the Bible uses expressions which cannot be harmonized with the idea that it is a person like the Father and the Son. Rather it is shown to be a divine influence from them both, the medium which represents their presence and by which they have knowledge and power through all the universe, when not personally present. 1890 R H, Oct 28,
In 1878, Uriah Smith answered the question ?What is the Holy Spirit? with "In a word it may, perhaps, best be described as a mysterious influence emanating from the Father and the Son, their representative and the medium of their power. {1878 UrS, TBI 184.4}

In 1877 J,H, Waggoner described the Holy Spirit as ?that awful and mysterious power which proceeds from the throne of the universe {1877 JHW, SGOM 9.1}

Canright was even more forceful "?The Holy Spirit is not a person, not an individual, but is an influence or power proceeding from the Godhead.?(Signs of the Times, July 25, 1878)


The theory basically puts human restrictions upon the personhood of Father and Son, and looked to the Holy Spirit as an impersonal power or mysterious influence emanating from Father and Son throughout the universe, because, they maintained, God, as a person could not be present everywhere. For them to say the Holy Spirit was a "person" was to destroy the omnipresence of God.

However, even though most Adventists believe God has form, we can look to 1 Cor. 15, and realize the scripture says it is foolish to think everything has the same type of body. The infinite and great God, while sharing qualities of His likeness with man at creation, is NOT in the image of man. We also see in Phil. 2 that Christ was in the FORM of God, but He took the FORM of a servant (of humanity) --

ELLEN WHITE

She affirms that God the Father, as well as Christ. does have a form -- but nowhere have I read that his omnipresence depends on an emanating influence.

Quote
God is infinite and omnipresent. No words of ours can describe His greatness and majesty.
Above the distractions of the earth He sits enthroned; all things are open to His divine survey; and from His great and calm eternity He orders that which His providence sees best. {FLB 42.4}
If men could see for a moment beyond the range of finite vision, if they could catch a glimpse of the Eternal, every mouth would be stopped in its boasting.
Nothing can happen in any part of the universe without the knowledge of Him who is omnipresent. Not a single event of human life is unknown to our Maker. FLB 61


The only time she talks about the Holy Spirit being the omnipresent representative, is when refering to the risen incarnate Christ, Who, having taken on humanity is encumbered by the human form. "The Holy Spirit isn't encumbered with the form of humanity. Christ would represent Himself as present in all places by the Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent..

She didn't try to explain things like her fellow pioneers, but accepted the work of the Holy Spirit as coming from God, and mentioned there were things she didn't know and thus was silent on those issues.

It wasn't until after 1888 that Ellen White stated emphasizing the PERSON of the Holy Spirit.
Remember -- the early pioneers denied the Holy Spirit was a person. To them a "person" had a body that could not be omnipresent.
Yet, we see Ellen White saying that God the Father was both a "person" and "omnipresent".
Was the Holy Spirit also a "person" and "omnipresent" --

It was rather suddenly, during the 1890's that she, as a messenger of the Lord became very specific on the issue of the personhood of the Holy Spirit.
Why?

Originally Posted by EGW
MS 57, 1900). {6BC 1074.9}
The work is laid out before every soul that has acknowledged his faith in Jesus Christ by baptism, and has become a receiver of the pledge from the three persons--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

1893 she wrote
"The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, in Christ?s name. He personifies Christ, yet is a distinct personality.?:

In 1896, she quoted the words of Jesus in John 16:7, 8, then wrote: "?Evil had been accumulating for centuries, and could only be restrained and resisted by the mighty power of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Godhead,

Manuscript 20, 1906
The Holy Spirit has a personality, ... He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God.

"The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. {20MR 68.5}


Why this sudden emphases?

It was time to move forward on these things?

Especially in light of the pantheistic theories that were creeping in -- theories of an impersonal God power prevading all things.
No -- the Holy Spirit is NOT just a power eminating from God, He is a person who thinks, reasons, loves, knows, etc. etc. Yes He comes from God, He represents God, He is One with God, but like God the Father and Son are "persons" so is He a person, the third member of the Godhead.

Originally Posted by EGW
There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905) {Ev 615.1}

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the three holy dignitaries of heaven, have declared that they will strengthen men to overcome the powers of darkness. All the facilities of heaven are pledged to those who by their baptismal vows have entered into a covenant with God (MS 92, 1901)
.

Re: Does the Holy Spirit Have a Physical Form? [Re: dedication] #190157
07/18/19 05:29 PM
07/18/19 05:29 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted by dedication

The only time she talks about the Holy Spirit being the omnipresent representative, is when refering to the risen incarnate Christ, Who, having taken on humanity is encumbered by the human form. "The Holy Spirit isn't encumbered with the form of humanity. Christ would represent Himself as present in all places by the Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent..

What does John 14 and the above underline mean to you?
Quote
the Holy Spirit...
Yes He comes from God, He represents God,
Is that the same as saying "Christ would represent Himself as present in all places by the Holy Spirit"?

Re: Does the Holy Spirit Have a Physical Form? [Re: Daryl] #190158
07/18/19 07:59 PM
07/18/19 07:59 PM
dedication  Online Content
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Of course the Holy Spirit comes from God and represents God.,
The Holy Spirit represents Christ and the Father.. That isn't under question.

Jesus represented the Father while He was on earth,
Thus the Father represented Himself to us by Christ, why shouldn't the third member of the Godhead also represent the first and second member of the Godhead?

Scripture is plain that the Holy Spirit does NOT come from some unknown place -- HE comes from the very presence of God. He does not do "his own thing" He is here to glorify the Father and Son and instruct us in all heavenly truth.

The Holy Spirit is the representative of Jesus Christ, even as Jesus Christ was the representative of God the Father.

John 16:13,14
"When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you.
5:26 When the Comforter is come, whom I (Jesus) will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he (the Holy Spirit) shall testify of me (Jesus):


That is entirely different from what the early pioneer position was, that God the Father and Son, had physical bodies and that those bodies did not possess omnipresence, thus they emitted an influence or mystical power to flow from them into all the universe. Their position was that the Holy Spirit could not be a "person" because a "person" is not omnipresemt.
Thus U. Smith asks: "God is omnipresent; and how can this be, if he is a person? - Answer: He has a representative, his Holy Spirit, by which he is ever present and ever felt in all his universe". {1884 UrS, MND 26.1}

BUT in 1893 Ellen White started to refute the pioneer position that the Holy Spirit was not a person, she wrote
"The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, in Christ's name. He personifies Christ, yet is a distinct personality.{20MR 324.2}

Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world's Redeemer...Of the Holy Spirit Jesus said, "He shall glorify Me." The Saviour came to glorify the Father by the demonstration of His love; so the Spirit was to glorify Christ by revealing His grace to the world. DA 671.


She made many other statements along that theme so it would became even more clear --

Of course, after that, we start seeing the older pioneers frantically trying to say ..but, but, but if he is a person, then the word person doesn't always mean a person.


Fuller explanation was posted here

Re: Does the Holy Spirit Have a Physical Form? [Re: Daryl] #190196
07/21/19 04:43 AM
07/21/19 04:43 AM
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The Wanderer  Offline
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I dont have time to post references tonight but my understanding is that this is not a great question to be asking; I recognize that other inquiring minds want to know; but I have trouble finding where scripture tells us to decide, 100% on what the physical makeup or Substance of Deity is, or would look like in work clothes. While there are a few scriptures which suggest some kind of Person, most of the scriptures I know of simply spell out the Three distinctive roles in the plan of salvation. I think that far too often, we do eliminate one or more of the Godhead, by trying to make the scriptures say they are referring to Substance, rather than roles or actions of Personalities. Its great that the Bible calls each of the three by personal names, personal actions. But a parenthetical mentioning of The Three as being some kind of Person, do we really know or need to know any further than this if its not in scripture? For example: God The Father is in heaven; Jesus is heaven, the Holy Spirit is here. Jesus is our Advocate to The Father, with His shed blood; and The Holy Spirit is here, living in our heart, and being our Advocate for Jesus; in order that we might come to Jesus, and know Him who is ever & always our eternal life, if we know Him. But knowing God does not include anything like knowing His physical Substance. Saying that "Jesus was really The Spirit" is a good example; for the texts involved have nothing to say about Substance, only the roles, as predetermined by "the heavenly counsel." I have some good references for next time


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
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