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Are we born "sinners?" #187441
09/10/18 01:20 AM
09/10/18 01:20 AM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
A few quotes of EGW. I'll let them speak for themselves...

ALL HUMANS ARE SINNERS

"THE INHERITANCE OF CHILDREN IS THAT OF SIN. Sin has separated them from God. Jesus gave His life that He might unite the broken links to God. As related to the first Adam, MEN RECEIVED FROM HIM NOTHING BUT GUILT and the sentence of death. But Christ steps in and passes over the ground where Adam fell, enduring every test in man's behalf. He redeems Adam's disgraceful failure and fall by coming forth from the trial untarnished. This places man on vantage ground with God. It places him where, through accepting Christ as his Saviour, he becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Thus he becomes connected with God and Christ." --
{Letter 68, 1899 EGW}

"--dam was required to render perfect obedience to God, not only in his own behalf, but in behalf of his posterity... But Adam failed to bear the test. And because he revolted against God's law, ALL HIS DESCENDANTS HAVE BEEN SINNERS."
{9MR 229.1}

"As a result of Adam's disobedience EVERY HUMAN BEING IS A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW, SOLD UNDER SIN. Unless he repents and is converted, he is under bondage to the law, serving Satan, falling into the deceptions of the enemy, and bearing witness against the precepts of Jehovah."
{HP 146.4}

"HUMAN NATURE IS DEPRAVED, AND IS JUSTLY CONDEMNED BY A HOLY GOD. But provision is made for the repenting sinner, so that by faith in the atonement of the only begotten Son of God, he may receive forgiveness of sin, find justification, receive adoption into the heavenly family, and become an inheritor of the kingdom of God."
{RH September 17, 1895, par. 7}

"But Satan's aim has been to lead men to self first; and yielding themselves to his control, they have developed a selfishness that has filled the world with misery and strife, setting human beings at variance with one another. SELFISHNESS IS THE ESSENCE OF DEPRAVITY..."
{ST December 25, 1901, par. 9}

"It is plainly written on the unrenewed heart and on a fallen world, All seek...their own. SELFISHNESS IS THE GREAT LAW OF OUR DEGENERATE NATURE. Selfishness occupies that place in the soul where Christ should sit enthroned."
{ST December 8, 1881, par. 5}

"SELFISHNESS IS INWROUGHT IN OUR VERY BEING. It has come to us as an inheritance," {Historical Sketches, 138, 139}. LHU 326.4}

"Concerning the creation of Adam it is said, 'In the likeness of God made He him;' but man, after the Fall, 'begat a son in his own likeness, after his image.' While Adam was created sinless, in the likeness of God, Seth, like Cain, INHERITED THE FALLEN NATURE OF HIS PARENTS..."
{PP 80.1}

"As we partake of the divine nature, HEREDITARY AND CULTIVATED TENDENCIES to wrong are cut away from the character, and we are made a living power for good."
{The Review and Herald, April 24, 1900}. {7BC 943.2}

"This enmity was spoken of in Eden. God declared to Satan, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel." This enmity was revealed as soon as man transgressed God's law. His NATURE became EVIL. He formed a confederacy with the enemy of God. Fallen men and fallen angels have united in a desperate companionship against good. Satan does all in his power to lead men to work with him. Christ has pledged Himself to engage in conflict with the prince of darkness, and Christ's soldiers, the chosen of God, war against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
{BEcho September 3, 1900, par. 3}

"When man transgressed the divine law, his NATURE BECAME EVIL, AND HE WAS IN HARMONY, AND NOT AT VARIANCE, WITH SATAN."
{GC88 506}

Many have to battle against strong hereditary tendencies to evil. Unnatural cravings, sensual impulses, were their INHERITANCE FROM BIRTH.
{MH 173.3}

"We have reason for ceaseless gratitude to God that Christ, by His perfect obedience, has won back the heaven that Adam lost through disobedience. ADAM SINNED, AND THE CHILDREN OF ADAM SHARE HIS GUILT AND ITS CONSEQUENCES; but Jesus bore the guilt of Adam, and all the children of Adam THAT WILL FLEE TO CHRIST, the second Adam, may escape the penalty of transgression."
{FW 88.3}

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. . . . Even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." ADAM'S FALL IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN CAUSED ALL TO SIN; but in the Garden of Gethsemane Christ drank the bitter cup of suffering and death, that whosoever BELIEVES in Him may not perish, but have everlasting life."
{ST, June 13, 1900}

"AS A RESULT OF ADAM'S DISOBEDIENCE, EVERY HUMAN BEING IS A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW, AND IS SOLD UNDER SIN. UNLESS man repents and is converted, he is under bondage of the law, serving Satan, falling into the deceptions of the enemy, bearing witness against the precepts of Jehovah. Only by perfect obedience to the requirements of God's holy law can man be justified. Let those whose natures have been perverted by sin, ever keep their eyes fixed on Christ, the author and the finisher of their faith."
{8MR 98.1}



Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187442
09/10/18 08:37 AM
09/10/18 08:37 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL

ALL HUMANS ARE SINNERS


Yes, and born so; as it is written, "As in Adam, ALL die ..." 1 Cor. 15:22. However, it is also written, that "The times of ignorance, God overlooked ..." Acts 17:30.

No one is ever faulted for accidents where the unfortunate incident was unintentional. So children, not knowing the difference between their right or left hand appear cute when they stretch out their right hand on being told to raise their left; whereas adults would be condemned as stupid and rebellious if they did the same.

We are ALL sinners from birth; but accountable for our own salvation as we are taught and can reason for ourselves whether we would turn to the left or to the right. Before that though, God, who knows everything and is ever merciful, overlooks our station and faults.

///

Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187443
09/10/18 01:29 PM
09/10/18 01:29 PM
G
glenm  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018
Posting New Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 45
Colorado, USA
In a discussion of this topic, it may be useful to distinguish between (1) being born a sinner, and (2) being born with a sinful nature.

The first of these implies that we are guilty at birth, for the sins of our ancestors. The Bible is against such an idea (Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:20).

This is the doctrine of original sin, as promulgated by St. Augustine and his successors. As an example of what follows from this belief, in 1854 Pope Pius IX set forth the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, where Mary was decreed to be free of sin from the point of her conception, so that she would not pass sin along to her Son.

The Bible says that we all are born with a sinful nature, and that Christ took human nature, in order to reach us in the depths of our degradation (Romans 8:3-4, Hebrews 2:14-18).

The Bible also says that sin is the transgression of the law, and that it is entered into deliberately (1 John 3:4, James 1:14-15, James 4:17).

Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: glenm] #187444
09/10/18 02:24 PM
09/10/18 02:24 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: glenm
In a discussion of this topic, it may be useful to distinguish between (1) being born a sinner, and (2) being born with a sinful nature.

The first of these implies that we are guilty at birth, for the sins of our ancestors. The Bible is against such an idea (Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:20).

This is the doctrine of original sin, as promulgated by St. Augustine and his successors. As an example of what follows from this belief, in 1854 Pope Pius IX set forth the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, where Mary was decreed to be free of sin from the point of her conception, so that she would not pass sin along to her Son.

>>> The Bible says that we all are born with a sinful nature, and that Christ took human nature, in order to reach us in the depths of our degradation (Romans 8:3-4, Hebrews 2:14-18).

The Bible also says that sin is the transgression of the law, and that it is entered into deliberately (1 John 3:4, James 1:14-15, James 4:17).

>>> "Sinful nature" as in born into Adam's sin.

We can use the analogy of wealth. Charlotte, daughter of Prince William and Kate, was born into royalty; and so, without her saying yay or nay or knowing anything at all, she was given the title of Princess. Not only that, but she was given a home in a castle and wherever she went, she was treated with deference and respect, enthusiasm and interest.

Is one born into the poverty of his parents treated the same? I think not! So it is, Jesus Christ was born into the House of Adam, our family, descendants of a man who sinned and therefore was condemned to die as we all are. BUT, because He was ever faithful, God gave Him a name above all names that at His name, every knee should bow and every tongue confess: SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, THE SECOND ADAM AND EVERLASTING FATHER. Isaiah 9:6-7

Into such a House, the House of God, we who believe were born again in the spirit and will not perish but have everlasting life. John 3

///

Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187543
09/29/18 08:45 AM
09/29/18 08:45 AM
Rick H  Offline
Group: Admin Team
2500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,810
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
A few quotes of EGW. I'll let them speak for themselves...

ALL HUMANS ARE SINNERS

"THE INHERITANCE OF CHILDREN IS THAT OF SIN. Sin has separated them from God. Jesus gave His life that He might unite the broken links to God. As related to the first Adam, MEN RECEIVED FROM HIM NOTHING BUT GUILT and the sentence of death. But Christ steps in and passes over the ground where Adam fell, enduring every test in man's behalf. He redeems Adam's disgraceful failure and fall by coming forth from the trial untarnished. This places man on vantage ground with God. It places him where, through accepting Christ as his Saviour, he becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Thus he becomes connected with God and Christ." --
{Letter 68, 1899 EGW}

"--dam was required to render perfect obedience to God, not only in his own behalf, but in behalf of his posterity... But Adam failed to bear the test. And because he revolted against God's law, ALL HIS DESCENDANTS HAVE BEEN SINNERS."
{9MR 229.1}

"As a result of Adam's disobedience EVERY HUMAN BEING IS A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW, SOLD UNDER SIN. Unless he repents and is converted, he is under bondage to the law, serving Satan, falling into the deceptions of the enemy, and bearing witness against the precepts of Jehovah."
{HP 146.4}

"HUMAN NATURE IS DEPRAVED, AND IS JUSTLY CONDEMNED BY A HOLY GOD. But provision is made for the repenting sinner, so that by faith in the atonement of the only begotten Son of God, he may receive forgiveness of sin, find justification, receive adoption into the heavenly family, and become an inheritor of the kingdom of God."
{RH September 17, 1895, par. 7}

"But Satan's aim has been to lead men to self first; and yielding themselves to his control, they have developed a selfishness that has filled the world with misery and strife, setting human beings at variance with one another. SELFISHNESS IS THE ESSENCE OF DEPRAVITY..."
{ST December 25, 1901, par. 9}

"It is plainly written on the unrenewed heart and on a fallen world, All seek...their own. SELFISHNESS IS THE GREAT LAW OF OUR DEGENERATE NATURE. Selfishness occupies that place in the soul where Christ should sit enthroned."
{ST December 8, 1881, par. 5}

"SELFISHNESS IS INWROUGHT IN OUR VERY BEING. It has come to us as an inheritance," {Historical Sketches, 138, 139}. LHU 326.4}

"Concerning the creation of Adam it is said, 'In the likeness of God made He him;' but man, after the Fall, 'begat a son in his own likeness, after his image.' While Adam was created sinless, in the likeness of God, Seth, like Cain, INHERITED THE FALLEN NATURE OF HIS PARENTS..."
{PP 80.1}

"As we partake of the divine nature, HEREDITARY AND CULTIVATED TENDENCIES to wrong are cut away from the character, and we are made a living power for good."
{The Review and Herald, April 24, 1900}. {7BC 943.2}

"This enmity was spoken of in Eden. God declared to Satan, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel." This enmity was revealed as soon as man transgressed God's law. His NATURE became EVIL. He formed a confederacy with the enemy of God. Fallen men and fallen angels have united in a desperate companionship against good. Satan does all in his power to lead men to work with him. Christ has pledged Himself to engage in conflict with the prince of darkness, and Christ's soldiers, the chosen of God, war against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
{BEcho September 3, 1900, par. 3}

"When man transgressed the divine law, his NATURE BECAME EVIL, AND HE WAS IN HARMONY, AND NOT AT VARIANCE, WITH SATAN."
{GC88 506}

Many have to battle against strong hereditary tendencies to evil. Unnatural cravings, sensual impulses, were their INHERITANCE FROM BIRTH.
{MH 173.3}

"We have reason for ceaseless gratitude to God that Christ, by His perfect obedience, has won back the heaven that Adam lost through disobedience. ADAM SINNED, AND THE CHILDREN OF ADAM SHARE HIS GUILT AND ITS CONSEQUENCES; but Jesus bore the guilt of Adam, and all the children of Adam THAT WILL FLEE TO CHRIST, the second Adam, may escape the penalty of transgression."
{FW 88.3}

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. . . . Even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." ADAM'S FALL IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN CAUSED ALL TO SIN; but in the Garden of Gethsemane Christ drank the bitter cup of suffering and death, that whosoever BELIEVES in Him may not perish, but have everlasting life."
{ST, June 13, 1900}

"AS A RESULT OF ADAM'S DISOBEDIENCE, EVERY HUMAN BEING IS A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW, AND IS SOLD UNDER SIN. UNLESS man repents and is converted, he is under bondage of the law, serving Satan, falling into the deceptions of the enemy, bearing witness against the precepts of Jehovah. Only by perfect obedience to the requirements of God's holy law can man be justified. Let those whose natures have been perverted by sin, ever keep their eyes fixed on Christ, the author and the finisher of their faith."
{8MR 98.1}



We have a disease called sin, and only one thing will cure it. But few want it, as they indulge in 'what feels good...do it'...and other lies from the father of lies.

Last edited by Rick H; 09/29/18 08:46 AM.
Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187552
09/29/18 01:17 PM
09/29/18 01:17 PM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: rick
We have a disease called sin, and only one thing will cure it. But few want it, as they indulge in 'what feels good...do it'...and other lies from the father of lies.
And most want to legal solution instead of healing (salvation)


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187699
10/25/18 09:29 AM
10/25/18 09:29 AM
Rick H  Offline
Group: Admin Team
2500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,810
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
A few quotes of EGW. I'll let them speak for themselves...

ALL HUMANS ARE SINNERS

"THE INHERITANCE OF CHILDREN IS THAT OF SIN. Sin has separated them from God. Jesus gave His life that He might unite the broken links to God. As related to the first Adam, MEN RECEIVED FROM HIM NOTHING BUT GUILT and the sentence of death. But Christ steps in and passes over the ground where Adam fell, enduring every test in man's behalf. He redeems Adam's disgraceful failure and fall by coming forth from the trial untarnished. This places man on vantage ground with God. It places him where, through accepting Christ as his Saviour, he becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Thus he becomes connected with God and Christ." --
{Letter 68, 1899 EGW}

"--dam was required to render perfect obedience to God, not only in his own behalf, but in behalf of his posterity... But Adam failed to bear the test. And because he revolted against God's law, ALL HIS DESCENDANTS HAVE BEEN SINNERS."
{9MR 229.1}

"As a result of Adam's disobedience EVERY HUMAN BEING IS A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW, SOLD UNDER SIN. Unless he repents and is converted, he is under bondage to the law, serving Satan, falling into the deceptions of the enemy, and bearing witness against the precepts of Jehovah."
{HP 146.4}

"HUMAN NATURE IS DEPRAVED, AND IS JUSTLY CONDEMNED BY A HOLY GOD. But provision is made for the repenting sinner, so that by faith in the atonement of the only begotten Son of God, he may receive forgiveness of sin, find justification, receive adoption into the heavenly family, and become an inheritor of the kingdom of God."
{RH September 17, 1895, par. 7}

"But Satan's aim has been to lead men to self first; and yielding themselves to his control, they have developed a selfishness that has filled the world with misery and strife, setting human beings at variance with one another. SELFISHNESS IS THE ESSENCE OF DEPRAVITY..."
{ST December 25, 1901, par. 9}

"It is plainly written on the unrenewed heart and on a fallen world, All seek...their own. SELFISHNESS IS THE GREAT LAW OF OUR DEGENERATE NATURE. Selfishness occupies that place in the soul where Christ should sit enthroned."
{ST December 8, 1881, par. 5}

"SELFISHNESS IS INWROUGHT IN OUR VERY BEING. It has come to us as an inheritance," {Historical Sketches, 138, 139}. LHU 326.4}

"Concerning the creation of Adam it is said, 'In the likeness of God made He him;' but man, after the Fall, 'begat a son in his own likeness, after his image.' While Adam was created sinless, in the likeness of God, Seth, like Cain, INHERITED THE FALLEN NATURE OF HIS PARENTS..."
{PP 80.1}

"As we partake of the divine nature, HEREDITARY AND CULTIVATED TENDENCIES to wrong are cut away from the character, and we are made a living power for good."
{The Review and Herald, April 24, 1900}. {7BC 943.2}

"This enmity was spoken of in Eden. God declared to Satan, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel." This enmity was revealed as soon as man transgressed God's law. His NATURE became EVIL. He formed a confederacy with the enemy of God. Fallen men and fallen angels have united in a desperate companionship against good. Satan does all in his power to lead men to work with him. Christ has pledged Himself to engage in conflict with the prince of darkness, and Christ's soldiers, the chosen of God, war against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
{BEcho September 3, 1900, par. 3}

"When man transgressed the divine law, his NATURE BECAME EVIL, AND HE WAS IN HARMONY, AND NOT AT VARIANCE, WITH SATAN."
{GC88 506}

Many have to battle against strong hereditary tendencies to evil. Unnatural cravings, sensual impulses, were their INHERITANCE FROM BIRTH.
{MH 173.3}

"We have reason for ceaseless gratitude to God that Christ, by His perfect obedience, has won back the heaven that Adam lost through disobedience. ADAM SINNED, AND THE CHILDREN OF ADAM SHARE HIS GUILT AND ITS CONSEQUENCES; but Jesus bore the guilt of Adam, and all the children of Adam THAT WILL FLEE TO CHRIST, the second Adam, may escape the penalty of transgression."
{FW 88.3}

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. . . . Even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." ADAM'S FALL IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN CAUSED ALL TO SIN; but in the Garden of Gethsemane Christ drank the bitter cup of suffering and death, that whosoever BELIEVES in Him may not perish, but have everlasting life."
{ST, June 13, 1900}

"AS A RESULT OF ADAM'S DISOBEDIENCE, EVERY HUMAN BEING IS A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW, AND IS SOLD UNDER SIN. UNLESS man repents and is converted, he is under bondage of the law, serving Satan, falling into the deceptions of the enemy, bearing witness against the precepts of Jehovah. Only by perfect obedience to the requirements of God's holy law can man be justified. Let those whose natures have been perverted by sin, ever keep their eyes fixed on Christ, the author and the finisher of their faith."
{8MR 98.1}



I was born with the genetic tendency for Diabetes. Did I deserve it or did I cause it, no, of course no. But still it was in my body and has since childhood, silently been doing its awful work...

Like sin, its been passed through my family line for generations, and not much can be done to stop it. Something has to change all the genetic code to eradicate it, and science has no answer...

Last edited by Rick H; 10/25/18 09:30 AM.
Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187730
11/01/18 01:58 PM
11/01/18 01:58 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,010
Nova Scotia, Canada
When does a person become accountable for their sins?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187748
11/04/18 11:41 PM
11/04/18 11:41 PM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: daryl
When does a person become accountable for their sins?
Is that a Biblical principle? EVERYONE, every human needs a savior.

The angels warned them to be on their guard against the devices of Satan, for his efforts to ensnare them would be unwearied. While they were obedient to God the evil one could not harm them; for, if need be, every angel in heaven would be sent to their help. If they steadfastly repelled his first insinuations, they would be as secure as the heavenly messengers. But should they once yield to temptation, their nature would become so depraved that in themselves they would have no power and no disposition to resist Satan. {PP 53.2}
 
It was possible for Adam, before the fall, to form a righteous character by obedience to God's law. But he failed to do this, and because of his sin our natures are fallen and we cannot make ourselves righteous. . Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. {SC 62.2}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: Daryl] #187749
11/05/18 03:24 AM
11/05/18 03:24 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Daryl
When does a person become accountable for their sins?

Sin is the transgression of the law. It is not an issue derived from genetic material, but rather a conscious decision to do wrong and its concomitant action, a function of our psycho-social environment. We overcome sin by inculcating perfect love.

SUCH LOVE:
  • suffers long
  • is kind
  • does not envy
  • does not parade itself
  • is not puffed up
  • does not behave rudely
  • does not seek its own
  • is not provoked
  • thinks no evil
  • does not rejoice in iniquity (ONLY in the truth)
  • bears all things
  • believes all things
  • hopes all things
  • endures all things.
-- 1 Cor. 13:4-7

Children must learn to love in much the same way as they learn to control their bodily functions. An adult is not someone who is 18 years old, but someone who has learned the practical value of moral strength, a strength that does not magically appear on the 18th birthday.

Jesus said, "By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another." We become children of God by demonstrating such expressions of love as was reflected in HIS life and ministry. The more we do so, the less and less the temptations to sin have a hold on us.

A child is accountable for whatever he has learnt. Some are quick learners while others take a much longer time. Just keep in mind that, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise [to come in judgment], as some count slackness, but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Pet. 3:9

///

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