2Kings 20:8 And Hezekiah said to Isaiah, "What is the sign that the LORD will heal me, and that I shall go up to the house of the LORD the third day?"
9 Then Isaiah said, "This is the sign to you from the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing which He has spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees or go backward ten degrees?"
10 And Hezekiah answered, "It is an easy thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees; no, but let the shadow go backward ten degrees."
11 So Isaiah the prophet cried out to the LORD, and He brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down on the sundial of Ahaz.

Isaiah 38:6 "I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria, and I will defend this city."'
7 "And this is the sign to you from the LORD, that the LORD will do this thing which He has spoken:
8 "Behold, I will bring the shadow on the sundial, which has gone down with the sun on the sundial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward." So the sun returned ten degrees on the dial by which it had gone down.

As I understand it, the sundial was at the top of a set of stairs. The shadow would go up the steps of one side and down the other. One would assume the steps were able to be walked up, so therefore, would be of equal height. As the shadow moves on a sundial, it follows a parabolic curve, meaning, the shadows related to time units are not consistently spaced but vary at an increasing or decreasing amount. With the shadow at the very beginning or very end of the day, a slight change in time would cause a dramatic change in shadow position. Therefore, the steps could not signify hours, but some unit of measure, most likely, a convenient step height. So 10 degrees, 10 units of measure, 10 steps.



We are not told what time of day this happened, so the 10 degrees could be a large or small distance [not really distance, but that is, measured by time] on the dial. Do notice, that while the conclusion in Isaiah does say the sun moved, the request was which way should the "shadow" move.

Which of the following do you think is more likely to have happened to cause the shadow to go back 10 degrees?

Did the earth spinning at more than 1,000 miles per hour come to a screeching halt, go backwards for awhile, then continue forward back up to speed?

Did the sun move in some unusual pattern through the galaxy making it appear the earth had stopped spinning, and the earth followed this unusual maneuver without missing a beat?

Or, using the concept of the feast-keeping flat earthers, did the tiny lightbulb like size of the sun move backwards over its circular path of the flat earth and then change directions again?

Or, after Isaiah left Hezekiah's presence late in the day, was there a tremor of an earthquake, indicating that God has spoken and acted, and as one tectonic plate slid upon another, there was the slightest tilt of the land where the sundial stood, causing the shadow to appear to move backwards?

I am open to any of these possibilities, with the exception of the idea of the feast keeping flat earthers. Now, I especially like your last suggestion, as this fits with our understanding of the issue that will come to the forefront when Sabbath/Sunday will be a crisis, along with why we Seventh-day Advenitsts have the health message and builds hospitals instead of having faith healers.


As Seventh-day Adventists we (are supposed to) believe in the purpose and perpetuity of the law of God. The law of the God of creation, the law of the God of nature. In the Bible we keep finding the natural and supernatural working together.

The plagues on Egypt were routine events, but God increased their intensity, and specificity from what usually appears random and general. Where Israel crossed the Jordan river, it was a place where the rocks falling from an upstream earthquake would dam up the river. Likewise, a suggestion for the location of the crossing of the Red Sea, is a place that use to part there every once in a while, whenever the east wind blew all night, until they built the Suez Canal. Nearly an entire village was wiped out the last time it parted and the villagers were slow to return. Same with the crossing of the Jordan. Sodom, Gomorrah, and Jericho are on a major earthquake fault.

Now the instant healing of Jesus was due to that culture's belief that illness was God's direct punishment for specific sins. Jesus wanted to teach them that their sins are forgiven. But on Mt. Herman, as the disciples could not cast out the demon, Jesus said ?This kind does not leave without fasting and prayer?. The ancient idea of fasting and prayer was someone prayerfully doing study and research, so busy in research that they don't take time to eat. Based on faith and scientific study. The picture of God as dependable, working with his health message, leading medical professionals into techniques, and thus our support of the purpose and perpetuity of God's law is why Seventh-day Adventists have the health message, health centers, and hospitals.

Our health message is in contrast to "I don't care about the laws of nature, whether they are laws of health or laws of studying, fasting and praying for results. Eat and drink what you wish, smoke as much as you want, ignore medical science, our god does not care about his laws, he will just heal you anyway!" This picture makes God look arbitrary, undependable and wishy-washy. This view of health is the view of the pagan gods. This thinking is nothing more than changing the names of the gods of Ekron to "Yahweh." as we can summarize the faith healers as doing.

Including studying Joshua 10 right on the very battlefield that we were reading about. Joshua 10 could either be interpreted as the supernatural alone, as we traditionally read, or be read as a oneness of natural and supernatural. The word for "still" means either "Don't move" or "Be Quiet". When you study the geography of the locations where the sun and moon were when Joshua told it to be still, and the land features of the battlefield, and the culture of both the Gibeonites and their attackers, help to know which direction to read.

Joshua told the Sun to be "still" on eastern horizon, The location of the moon was setting in the west, the specific word he used for the moon is a military command to hold the ground and not retreat to an oncoming army. The layout of the battle field-- Darkness was to Israel's advantage, The enemy needed to use torches in fleeing, Joshua could take advantage of the enemy's torchlight and remain in the darkness. Daylight would have evened up the battle field. When Joshua tells the sun to be "still" and the moon to not retreat, we read about a sudden hail storm. The size of the hail indicates clouds so think that it would be as dark as night.
'
The Gibeonites, had just changed from worshiping the false god Baal and turned to the God of Israel. Adoni-Zedek's name is very similar to another king of Salem/Jerusalem, Melchinzedek. This could indicate that Adoni-Zedek was a descendent of the faithful Melchinzedek but some where along the line the family turned from worshiping the true God to worshiping the false god Baal. Thus we have indication of two changes in religion. It was this apostate Adoni-Zedek who gathered other city states to come and punish the Gibeonites for their apostasy against Baal.

The Gibeonites, Adoni-Zedek, and the others would have understood a sudden storm as the god Baal showing up. Adoni-Zedek and the others would have seen the storm as Baal coming to their rescue, to punish the Gibeonites for their apostasy, and to destroy these horrible Israelites. But surprise, Baal is not supporting his followers and getting revenge on his apostate Gibeonites, and the Israelites. Instead Baal shows the Gibeonites and Adoni-Zedek and the others that he, Baal, is simply a servant of Israel's God YAHWEH, and he totally approves of the Gibeonites turning from worshiping him and worshiping his master instead. Baal is recommending that Adoni-Zedek and the other attackers to follow the Gibeonites example and to stop worshiping him and to start worshiping his boss, the God of Israel, the God that . We miss all of this in our traditional reading.

There is evidence that some of the events in Joshua are telescoped together *. The name Adoni-Zedek is similar, very similar to another King of Salem, maybe his ancestor. In Joshua 10:23 the name "Adoni-Zedek" disappears and only the words ?King of Jerusalem? could this event from the storm have caused Adoni-Zedek to repent from worshiping Baal and return to the God of his Father, and that it is another king of Jerusalem who dies in Joshua 10:23? We don't know, but our traditional reading does not even allow us to ask this question. We won't know until heaven this detail. But even if Adoni-Zedek did not repent, how many of the soldiers who came to attack Gibeon understood this message and changed their allegiance to the God of Israel?

As for the quote from the book of Jashar: that book is quoted a few times, and it applies the idea of the sun not going down for both the fall of Judah to the Babylon as well as to the fall of Babylon, along with waves standing and applauding and similar events. Did the sun stand still three times: Joshua, Judah, and Babylon? Or should we use these terms as symbols of God fighting as it is when Judah and Babylon fell? Also, looking at the quote from Jashar: Psalm 19 shows the Hebrew understanding of the circuit of the sun, that the sun has a daily dash across the sky to the western horizon, then repeats this race every morning. Jashar says that the sun stopped in the middle of something. While we assume that it should be translated the middle of the sky (which is different from what the Bible says about it stopping over Gibeon on the eastern horizon) the text could be understood as the sun stopping in the middle of preparing to do it's dash. the idea of "On your mark, get set... WAIT" and that the sun did not resume it's dash until the next morning.

Joshua 10:14 says "And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel." We may have to respond with "Hold it Deuteronomy Historian, don't be too hasty."
If God wanted to he would have had no problem in performing all the miracles to have the sun shine in the sky all day and all night, but that would only be showing off. God is not a show off. He was helping Joshua keep his battlefield advantage, and he was letting the Gibeonites know that they made the right choice turning to YAHWEH, and that they did not need to worry about Baal coming for revenge, and he was encouraging Adoni-Zedek to return to the God of his father Melchinzedek, and encouraging all the kings and their troops to follow the lead of the Gibeonites and stop worshiping Baal and start worshiping Yahweh. (Can you imagine the joy that we will see in Melchinzedek's face if this did win Adoni-Zedek over? Even if this did not work, Can you imagine the sadness in Melchinzedek's face if he realized God didn't even try to win his descendant, since God only wanted to show off?)

The combination of the words of the text, the location of the sun and moon, the features on the battlefield and the theology of both the Gibeonites and their attackers indicate that we have a beautiful, calm day dawning. That Joshua suddenly stormed. There is also another piece of evidence. Joshua 10:14 "there has never been a day like it before or since when the Lord listened to a human" Not so fast Deuteronomic Historian, don't be too hasty in your claim. Many, especially of the most focused upon of Jesus' miracles are reflections of the great miracles, either direct (maybe deeper) repeats, or contrasts. Jesus' spoiling a perfectly good funeral at Nain occurred on Mt. Moreh, the same hill that had the villages of Shunem and Endor. The Gospels tell about Jesus one stormy night on the sea and there is a great storm. Jesus commands the storm to be still and it becomes quite. Joshua stormed the calm and Jesus calmed the storm, and the disciples said in Mark 4:41 They were terrified and asked each other, ?Who is this? Even the wind and the waves obey him!? Is it a coincidence that this sounds a lot like Joshua 10:14? Or did the disciples recognize this Joshua doing the same act as that Joshua10 records?

God has amazing plans for a presentation of the health message that is fair to God's natural and scientific laws. We have a spirit of wanting superstition and traditions and excitement instead of a God who respects his laws and cooperates with them, We have people with narrow views of Adventism. If God was to do what he wishes to do through our health message, instead of calling glory to God it would only end up glorifying our narrow version of Adventism at the expense of the rest of the church and gospel, encouraging a superficial reading of the Bible and Mrs. White. Once we give up our superstitions, God will be doing awesome things through the health message.



* The SDABC says that one of the possible final editors of the Deuteronomic History may be Jeremiah or someone in his inner circle. Some additional evidence that indicates that the commentary may be correct is that the Deuteronomic History is full of stories of people God blesses but they turn God's blessing into a curse. And stories about people who God curses, but God turns the curse into a blessing. For example, the family of Eli was cursed by being noted for the rarity of old men in this family. As we look through the genealogy tables, this family produced an unusual number of prophets; and prophets tend not to live to be old men. Also, as we follow the major curses, most of them end up falling on one person, his name was Jeremiah. Was this a coincidence, or was Jeremiah (or someone in his inner circle) using the story of his family to teach about God?

There is evidence (both textual, and archaeology) that there was as much, if not more, evangelism going on during Joshua's conquest. But the text purposely wanted to focus on the violence of an invading army destroying the evil residents of the land. Jeremiah was facing the crisis of the Babylonians. He is preparing the people for war with the Babylonians.

I believe in miracles -- not superstitions there is a difference.

What happened to Hezekiah was a miraculous event -- time, as recorded by a sundial went backward. How this was accomplished we do not know, but it's fun guessing.

As to Kland's four possibilities as to how God did this:

1. No I don't think the earth suddenly stopped rotating, everything on earth would have been destroyed. ( it seems unrealistic even as a miracle)

2. Sounds most reasonable -- somehow God nudged the whole sun, moon, planet system to gentle move somehow, which caused earth's shadows to move backward, in a way that did not disrupt life here. Then God gently moved it back in order again.

3. No, the flat earth, that's not even dealing with regular patterns and conditions to start with.

4. No, the dial went backward in other countries as well. (Remember the Babylonians came wanting to find out how this happened) So it wasn't a local shifting of the sundial. There's no record in the account of an earthquake. And if there was one it would have made the miracle easy for the scientists of the day (and of Babylon) to explain as a mere co-incidence.

Hezekiah missed a grand opportunity to witness to the Babylonians about God's power and grace! History may have changed had Hezekiah given all credit to God.

How do you conclude that?

2Chron 32:31 However, regarding the ambassadors of the princes of Babylon, whom they sent to him to inquire about the wonder that was done in the land, God withdrew from him, in order to test him, that He might know all that was in his heart.

The visit of the ambassadors to Hezekiah was a test of his gratitude and devotion. The record says, "Howbeit, in all the business of the ambassadors of the princes of Babylon, who sent unto him to inquire of the wonder that was done in the land,
{ST, October 1, 1902 par. 10}

All it does is say the king of Babylon had heard Hezekiah was sick and inquired about the wonder that was done in the land. It doesn't say, "in the world" or "on the earth". Nor does it say the king experienced or observed the shadow going backwards. Only, he had heard. I find it non-conclusive.


Matthew 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

Acts 16:26 Suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone's chains were loosed.

Could say the earthquake dislodged the stone.
Could say the earthquake loosed the chains.
Not having a record of an earthquake, no evidence of all earthquakes being recorded in the Bible, no evidences of all tremors being recorded, leaves us without a valid reason for concluding it couldn't have happened.

The quote doesn't negate my statement.
The ambassadors were sent by the princes of Babylon to Hezekiah to inquire about the wonder that was done in the land.
This suggests the "wonder of the clock moving backwards" was seen in the land of Babylon as well as in Jerusalem. Do you think the Babylonians would have believed time moved backwards if they hadn't seen it?
Note, I didn't say it was seen in all the world (maybe it was maybe not) but it was seen in more places than Jerusalem.
Here is additional quote from EGW.





Acts 16:26 talks of an earthquake that took place some five hundred years later, thus doesn't really apply. True, earthquakes can juggle things around.
But like I mentioned earlier -- had this backward movement of the sun been the result of an earthquake moving the sundial or the stairs, the sundial or stairs being moved would be very easily explained then and there, not a wonder at all. The probability high that the earthquake would have been recorded and given the credit. (Which was not done)

This is a very important sentence. Had Hezekiah shared his true riches (his God), the reformation could have spread through the whole world and the Messianic Kingdom could have soon been set up. But instead of sharing his true riches he showed them his stuff. Instead of returning home with the gospel, they returned home with memories of his stuff and the decision on how to someday make it their stuff. This would have been as heartbreaking to Isaiah as October 23, 1844 was to our pioneers. Praise God, He is willing to work with people who suffer great disappointments.

I didn't mention any earthquake recorded. Again, do you think all earthquakes (or tremors as I suggested) were recorded whether in the history or in the Bible?


Could you tell me how one would go about determining whether the ground a sundial or stairs were residing on was ever so slightly tilted?
I, myself, cannot fathom how one could go about determining such. I suppose one could assume it was built absolutely perfectly level, but that is also assuming it had not settled over time. Suppose you were there. A tremor or not, but if the earth did tilt ever so slightly, when the shadow went backward, you were standing there, in what way would you be able to determine whether it had tilted and in what direction?

OK, if you, Kland, are saying God slightly shook the earth under the relevant time devises involved, that could be a reasonable option, but it's still a miracle by God. Right?

So why are we debating this issue? Hopefully it's just curiosity, and not something rather prevalent in the world today -- like part of the so called "higher thinking" "enlightened" movement, promoting the concept that what goes on in the world is simply a matter of cause and effect, with everything following very strict rules of nature, and that miracles were impossible because God was thought to never intervene by working outside these "strict rules" of nature?



Even if God caused tremors in the earth to shift the shadow, it was still not a natural event, for it happened at just the right time, with just the right movement, not only in Jerusalem but also in Babylon. It was not merely a local shifting of a certain stairway or sundial.

It was not "an earthquake' which would have been noticed as shaking or shifting other things in the area as well, but very well synchronized tremors to have the exact precise effect needed in a way to create a very specific action. The result being that with varied conditions in different places, it would be noticed that time went backward a distinct amount of time, on more than one sundial or staircase, which would be noticed by enough people in at least those two different places to astonish them.

It was a miracle.


What about the great story of the sun moving backwards (standing still) for Joshua? (Kevin brought that one up)
Joshua told the Sun to be "still". Should we simply spiritualize that away. and say it didn't literally happen? Was it just a symbolic story?


Why are people (scientists, scholars) work so hard to discredit miracles and try to link them all to some cause and effect natural event?

I guess it's because they wish to distance themselves from a personal God????
But we don't have to follow them.


1. Some defend the idea that nature works in complete uniformity. This is of course, a very important point for evolutionists.
But the Bible shows that God is very capable in working miracles that would NOT happen without His intervention.
The insistence of uniformity is generally used to deny the six day creation, and the flood.
In fact, the prediluvians already used the uniformity concept to say Noah was crazy to predict a world wide flood. And uniformity arguments, according to 2Peter 3 are used to scoff at Christ's second coming.

2. Scientific observation records the way that things usually operate, and theories and laws are built up around this. But it is a great leap into denial to argue that because things normally happen a certain way, they can only happen that way.
God is the great Creator, not just of this world, but of the universe! While His moral, righteousness and holy character is unchangeable, there is absolutely no reason He can't modified or temporarily suspended natural laws for a purpose or even create or implement a whole new set of natural laws.

What I read in scripture God, at Christ's second coming will even change our natural bodies from corruptible to incorruption.
A miracle of miracles !!
Heaven and the New Earth operate under systems of natural laws, completely different from the uniformity of nature scientists see today.

Of course! I have no intention in not saying it was a miracle. Sorry if I had suggested that idea. It's just some atheists seem to think God violated His laws and the laws of sense in stopping a spinning object of 1,000 mph, with life on it, turn it backwards, and then back forward without ejecting the inhabitants. Even you didn't think that happened. But don't you believe in miracles?

I only suggested a way that the miracle could still be performed and make perfect sense. God wanted to know if the land should be tilted left or right. And it wouldn't take very much.

Possibly true if your quote of Ellen White, "when they noticed that the shadow on the sundial", means their own sundial rather than hearing about "the" sundial of Hezekiah's land.

The issue with Joshua 10 is just WHAT miracle did God perform that day? Hebrew linguists point out that the Hebrew alone can be understood one of two ways: That either the sun did not move, or that the sun was quiet that day. It is tradition that has latched on to the sun did not move option. The word "Still" can mean "Don't move" or "Be Quiet". The command for the moon is for it not to move, but it is a military command meaning to hold your ground and not allow an advancing army to gain any ground. And the text from the book of Jashar has the sun doing something that prevented it from going down that day. It could have been in the middle of the sky, or it could have been in the middle of getting ready to start it's daily dash across the sky.

When we look at the geography, we find that Joshua told the sun to be still upon the eastern horizon (and not in the middle of the sky). The moon was told to hold it's ground and do not allow an attacking army to make any progress on the west part of the sky.

The Gibeonites, as the other Canaanites were worshipers of the storm God Baal. The Gibeonites had just given up their Baal worship and began worshiping YAHWEH. They were new believers and could well have wondered if Baal would punish them for having changed their worship.

Adoni-Zedek king of Jerusalem is a similar name to Melchizedek king of Salem (Jerusalem). Melchizedek was not a Baal worshiper, but worshiped the God Most High. Somewhere between Melchizedek and Adoni-Zedek, there was a changing of worship from the God Most High to Baal. This king of a changed religion encouraged the other Baal worshipers to punish the Gibeonites for turning from Baal to YAHWEH.

The night/darkness gave the Hebrews the advantage in the attack. Day light would take away the advantage. It was the start of a beautiful morning. Joshua told the sun, coming over the ridge in the east over Gibeon to "Be Still" and told the moon, the officer of the night to hold it's ground in the west and not retreat to an oncoming army's advance, and there is a sudden hail storm.

As pointed out above in the quote from "Patriarchs and Prophets" Mrs. White says "Joshua saw that the day was not long enough for the battle" quoted the text then goes into describing, not the sun shining brilliantly, but the sudden hail storm.

To the Gibeonites, Adoni-Zedek, and the other Canaanites the sudden storm would have been understood as Baal showing up. Was Baal going to fight his own battle? Was he there to deliver Adoni-Zedek and the other Canaanites from Joshua and his army, and to punish the Gibeonites for their apostasy? Was Baal going to reward Adoni-Zedek for the turning away from the God most high to Baal?

No, no, Baal ends up being a tool in the hands of YAHWEH to punish the Canaanites and to fight for Joshua, the Hebrews and the Gibeonites. This would have been a message to Adoni-Zedek and the other Canaanites that it would be wise for them to follow in the path of the Gibeonites and to turn to YAHWEH.

We also find this to be the parallelism on how Joshua stormed a calm day on land to Jesus calming a stormy night on the sea. Joshua 10 says that there has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. We would have to respond to this text with a "Not so fast Deuteronomist Historian" as we see another day like this raising in the minds of the disciples the same question that was raised in the mind of the Deuteronomist Historian, "Who is he that even the winds and rain obey him?"

God did very much a miracle on both days, when Joshua stormed the calm and when Jesus calmed the storm. Again, the question we were to ask is which one of the two possible ways of understanding the Hebrew, that either the sun did not move, or that the sun did not shine that day. The geography and the theology and parallelism with Jesus calming the storm indicated that the sun did not shine that day.