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Re: Whose are we? #10141
09/16/03 02:14 AM
09/16/03 02:14 AM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
quote:

Posted by Darius:
We ignore Paul when he says that Eve was deceived. We also ignore him when he says we see through a glass darkly. We ignore Moses when he says that Eve was not created when the command was given. We don't even realise that our doctrines on salvation ignore Moses when he says God created all in the beginning. In essence, we are teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.

Some of what you have posted here seems to be referring to the content of another topic or two.

Who is the we ignore that you are referring to here?

Re: Whose are we? #10142
09/16/03 12:35 PM
09/16/03 12:35 PM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
Who is the we ignore that you are referring to here?

Christians. I include myself because I do not separate myself from the rest of the family.

Re: Whose are we? #10143
09/16/03 06:16 PM
09/16/03 06:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
If the remnant church does not have all the truth necessary for the great controversy to come to a successful close - then how will it close? Jesus said - Salvation is of the Jews. Nowadays He would say - Salvation is of the church. But if no one church has the truth necessary for salvation and the end of the great controversy, then how do we discover the truth?

Re: Whose are we? #10144
09/16/03 07:13 PM
09/16/03 07:13 PM
S
Steve Claborn  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 213
Alabama
Mike,
I would submit that before there was a church, before there was a Jew. God revealed Himself to His children. Thus, He will do that now, He does not need a church to reveal Himself to his children... Ideally a church would be a representative of Him, but far to often the church misrepresents who He is, and He then has to undo all the damage our misrepresentation has caused.....

Re: Whose are we? #10145
09/16/03 07:24 PM
09/16/03 07:24 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
But isn't too late to divorce the church from the picture? Seems to me all the world is watching the church to see whether God is right or wrong. Unfortunately many have decided against the Lord on account of unsanctified members. The opposite is true too! Many have been won to Jesus because of godly members. I'm one of them.

Re: Whose are we? #10146
09/16/03 08:57 PM
09/16/03 08:57 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
The following quote should answer this question:

quote:

October 3, 1893 Lessons From the Church in the
Wilderness.
-
By Mrs. E. G. White.


In the example of Moses pleading for the children of Israel, is represented the position that we should take in regard to the people of God, however erring, or weak, or defective they may be. By the mighty cleaver of truth, the Lord has brought out a people from the quarry of the world, as he brought out of Egypt a people to keep his commandments, and at every step he has shown them that he is leading them in paths of truth and righteousness.
He has sent his light and his counsels, instructing them to build institutions of learning, to provide sanitariums and publishing houses, and success has attended the carrying out of these plans. The money of the Seventh-day Adventists has not been hoarded in order that they might live delicately, but self-denial and self-sacrifice have marked their history, and still their work is to make progress, and to be aggressive. The world have a light constantly shining upon them, because this people honor God in keeping his commandments. Now can we expect that a message would be true that would designate as Babylon the people for whom God has done so much? Hell would triumph should such a message be received, and the world would be strengthened in iniquity. All the reproaches which Satan has cast upon the character of God, would appear as truth, and the conclusion would be made that God has no chosen or organized church in the world. O, what a triumph would this be to Satan and his confederacy of evil! God does not work in this way. He does just what he said he would do in the 58th chapter of Isaiah:-- {RH, October 3, 1893 par. 13}

This tells me that God does have an organized church on this earth, and that organized church is none other than the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Re: Whose are we? #10147
09/16/03 10:44 PM
09/16/03 10:44 PM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
This tells me that God does have an organized church on this earth, and that organized church is none other than the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Again, you have bypassed the central issue. I am not questioning whether this church is God's chosen instrument in these last days. My question is what is the significance of the fact that there is absolutely no prophecy (no one has produced one) foretelling that a sub-group of the body of Christ would arise anywhere near the time when this church arose. I thought my original question was clear enough, but I clearly was not.

Re: Whose are we? #10148
09/17/03 01:42 AM
09/17/03 01:42 AM
S
Steve Claborn  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 213
Alabama
How much of our believe that we are "the church" for these last days has been influenced by the whole concept that the Puritans subscribed to, that being "manifest destiny?"

Re: Whose are we? #10149
09/17/03 10:43 PM
09/17/03 10:43 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The fact there are sub-church groups is evident from the fact Babylon is the mother of harlots. So it is not inconceivable that God also has a sub-church group He has been working through since 1844 to carry the final warning messages to all the world.

Re: Whose are we? #10150
09/17/03 11:31 PM
09/17/03 11:31 PM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
So it is not inconceivable that God also has a sub-church group He has been working through since 1844 to carry the final warning messages to all the world.

The moment you added that date you force us to ask the basis for doing so. We know that men were looking forward to the coming of the Messiah because God told the prophets about it. Is there anything in the Bible that shows that men were supposed to be looking for some sub-group to arise in 1844? I know the answer is know but I am having a difficult time understanding why you are so reluctant to admit that. I get the feeling you think I am trying to make the SDA church irrelevant.

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