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Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #101543
08/13/08 04:20 PM
08/13/08 04:20 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
So, do you agree there is a physical element to the light that radiates from God? If so, do you believe it consumes sinful flesh but not sinless flesh? Also, do you believe Jesus veiled this light with human flesh?

What is she saying in the following passage:

Christ was about to visit our world, and to become incarnate. He says, "A body hast Thou prepared Me." Had He appeared with the glory that was His with the Father before the world was, we could not have endured the light of His presence. That we might behold it and not be destroyed, the manifestation of His glory was shrouded. His divinity was veiled with humanity,--the invisible glory in the visible human form. {DA 23.1}

This great purpose had been shadowed forth in types and symbols. The burning bush, in which Christ appeared to Moses, revealed God. The symbol chosen for the representation of the Deity was a lowly shrub, that seemingly had no attractions. This enshrined the Infinite. The all-merciful God shrouded His glory in a most humble type, that Moses could look upon it and live. So in the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night, God communicated with Israel, revealing to men His will, and imparting to them His grace. God's glory was subdued, and His majesty veiled, that the weak vision of finite men might behold it. {DA 23.2}

So Christ was to come in "the body of our humiliation" (Phil. 3:21, R. V.), "in the likeness of men." In the eyes of the world He possessed no beauty that they should desire Him; yet He was the incarnate God, the light of heaven and earth. His glory was veiled, His greatness and majesty were hidden, that He might draw near to sorrowful, tempted men. {DA 23.2}

We cannot see and could not endure the glory of angelic ministrations if their glory was not veiled in condescension to the weakness of our human nature. The blaze of the heavenly glory, as seen in the angels of light, would extinguish earthly mortals. {1SM 96.3}

Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Mountain Man] #101574
08/13/08 11:57 PM
08/13/08 11:57 PM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
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 Quote:
So, do you agree there is a physical element to the light that radiates from God? If so, do you believe it consumes sinful flesh but not sinless flesh? Also, do you believe Jesus veiled this light with human flesh?


This makes it sound like something from "Raiders of the Last Ark." First of all, this is just a side issue. The physicality of God's light is not the issue. It's the glory of His character that is of concern.

Secondly, I don't know of anywhere that says the it "consumes flesh."

Regarding the passages cited, I think the first one is speaking to both the physical light of God and His character, the next two are speaking to God's character, and the last one to both physical light and character, with character being the primary issue always.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #101594
08/14/08 01:14 PM
08/14/08 01:14 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Do you think there is any truth to the way the light of God is portrayed in Raiders of the Lost Ark?

What about these passages:

Zechariah
14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

GC 657
"The Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain." Isaiah 26:21. "And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold everyone on the hand of his neighbor, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbor." Zechariah 14:12, 13. In the mad strife of their own fierce passions, and by the awful outpouring of God's unmingled wrath, fall the wicked inhabitants of the earth--priests, rulers, and people, rich and poor, high and low. "And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried." Jeremiah 25:33. {GC 656.3}

At the coming of Christ the wicked are blotted from the face of the whole earth--consumed with the spirit of His mouth and destroyed by the brightness of His glory. Christ takes His people to the City of God, and the earth is emptied of its inhabitants. "Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof." "The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word." "Because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned." Isaiah 24:1, 3, 5, 6. {GC 657.1}

Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Mountain Man] #101612
08/14/08 09:40 PM
08/14/08 09:40 PM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I don't think the truth is depicted by Raiders in the Lost Ark.

 Quote:
To sin, wherever found, "our God is a consuming fire." Heb. 12:29. In all who submit to His power the Spirit of God will consume sin. But if men cling to sin, they become identified with it. Then the glory of God, which destroys sin, must destroy them. Jacob, after his night of wrestling with the Angel, exclaimed, "I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." Gen. 32: 30.

Jacob had been guilty of a great sin in his conduct toward Esau; but he had repented. His transgression had been forgiven, and his sin purged; therefore he could endure the revelation of God's presence. But wherever men came before God while willfully cherishing evil, they were destroyed. At the second advent of Christ the wicked shall be consumed "with the Spirit of His mouth," and destroyed "with the brightness of His coming." 2 Thess. 2:8. The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked.(DA 107, 108)


The issue is a spiritual issue. That which gives life to the righteous will slay the wicked.

 Quote:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.(John 6:63)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #101641
08/15/08 05:34 PM
08/15/08 05:34 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
What about the passages posted above? Do they describe the literal light of God's radiant glory consuming sinful flesh?

Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Mountain Man] #101665
08/16/08 04:36 AM
08/16/08 04:36 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
This is mostly Scripture being quoted. Why not just quote the Scripture? Why quote Ellen White quoting Scripture?

It looks to me like God's character is being spoken of.

The whole issue of the Great Controversy involves God's character. People live or die according to how they respond to God, what they decide in regards to Him, His character, His principles. Physical light radiating from His presence is of small moment. This seems to me like straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What does it mean - The wrath and vengeance of "an offfended God"? [Re: Tom] #101947
08/26/08 03:39 PM
08/26/08 03:39 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Yes, God's character is an important part of the GC. But do you agree with the way she applied the scriptures in the quote above? And, do you agree it involves God's radiant glory consuming sinful flesh? "Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth."

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