MM, you're both changing the subject and not addressing the question. Of course the Sabbath is a blessing, but that was not the subject. I asked you:



I would have liked to have gone further back and found where you quoted this, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, you have previously argued that what you call "mental" sins are in a different category that, I'm not sure what term you would use, "instinctive" sins, and it looks like you are contradicting yourself when you say that not keeping the Sabbath, a "mental" sin (to use your expression) is "fatal."

How is it fatal? Please keep in mind the context! The question isn't "Is keeping the Sabbath a blessing" but "How is not keeping a 'mental' sin (i.e. sin of ignorance) 'fatal'"?

Again, not keeping the Sabbath is tragic in the sense they are missing out on a huge blessing. People who lack certain medication miss out on the blessing of restored health. Ignorance does not prevent people from missing out on. Missing out is tragic.

Because he sinned in light of knowing God fully. There was nothing more God could to do to recommend His love in a way that would impress Lucifer to repent. The instant he sinned he was beyond hope. The same thing is true of people who willfully sin after knowing God as well as t hey can in this lifetime.

Hebrews
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


Because Jesus imputes, at the moment of death, what he would have done (i.e. repent), rather than waiting to impute it sometime later.

This can't be:



He was given an opportunity to confess his sin, so he was obviously not "beyond hope."

Found the quotes:
If someone sins and "would repent if he had the chance" God can and will keep him alive to do it. The IJ is based on our works, not inferences.

Thank you, Arnold, for those quotes. They remind me of a discussion Tom, MM and I had last year, entitled "Does God Choose The Best Moment for Every Person to Die?"

Why does God have to keep him alive to repent? Are you saying if a person commits a sin, any sin, and doesn't repent of it he is lost? The statements from the SOP are speaking of very serious sins, such as resisting the Holy Spirit to eternal ruin. The context of MM's comment was a person cursing. If a person cursed and died, would he be lost if he didn't have a chance to repent?

The tree determines the fruit borne. And the fruit borne is unmistakable evidence of what the tree is. Hence, Jesus could say, "By their fruits you will know them." Also, out of the abundance of heart, the mouth speaks.

I have some experience with cursing, so maybe I can comment on that. Growing up, my father continually cursed. That's how he was. Of course, I absorbed all this over the years.

When I got "old enough" I started cursing also. It was what "grown-ups" did, and enhanced my "maturity" in the eyes of my immature peers. As I grew accustomed to this way of speaking, it got to the point where I was cursing about every other sentence.

Anyway, years later, I had my Damascus experience. All of those things I learned in church finally found application in my life. You know what I did with my cursing? Nothing. I did nothing to address it.

It wasn't until a few years later when I realized that I was not cursing anymore, not even in my mind. Conversion is not a matter of outward behavior, but it is definitely manifested in outward behavior. More importantly, thoughts and feelings - character - are changed such that one is a new creature. The change was so dramatic that when my best friend came home from Andrews, after less than a day of hanging out, he said, "What have you guys done to my friend? Where is he, and who is this?"

Is cursing that terrible that it would condemn eternally? Let's keep in mind that we got into this mess by someone eating a fruit. But the paramount question is this: What led to this act? If the Holy Spirit was the one leading the person to curse, then I think everything should be fine. But if the flesh is leading, there is a huge problem, even if what the person was doing was being lauded and commended by others around him (e.g. donating money, doing church work, etc.).

Why is repentance so important? I view it through the IJ. What is it for? Doesn't God already know who is good and who is bad? And why is it based on works? The answer is because, in a very real sense, God is on trial in the IJ, and the rest of the universe is the jury.

God said, "Yes, they are messed up, but if they choose Me as their Lord and Savior, you will see that they are safe neighbors." The IJ shows what God can do through man, and what man can be through an intimate connection with God. This will prove that God is trustworthy and knows what He's talking about.

How would it work if God said, "Well, yes he cursed, and he doesn't look like a nice neighbor right now, but trust Me, if you give him time, he'll be OK. Just trust Me on this one." That's not going to fly. How can God testify to His own credibility when it is His credibility that is in question? It's no good.

What works is that those who profess to be God's followers manifest in their own lives the character of Jesus. Everyone wants to be neighbors with Him. And when the jury sees that God is able to turn sinners into saints, keeping in mind that only God can see the heart, then they will see that God's claims are true.

So, what's God to do? The easiest thing to do is to keep the guy alive long enough to repent. Then there is no question as to what he "would have done had he lived long enough." If God can keep people alive in a fiery furnace, He can do this too. Then, rather than conjectures as to what would have happened, all that is needed is to peek in the record books to see what actually happened. The evidence is history, not His story.

By their fruits you will know them.

Arnold, I appreciate the long response, obviously well thought out, but I still don't know the answers to my questions. It sounds like you might be saying that a person who cursed would be lost if he didn't have time to repent. Is that correct?

Since you wrote at such length, it seems only fair that I should say something too, rather than just ask questions.

I agree with you that the tree is known by the fruit. Let's say a person curses, and everytime they curse they repent. So we can conclude that the person inadvertantly curses, and when he does, he repents.

Here's how I see the process of not cursing taking place:
a.Person curses, thinks nothing of it.
b.Person is converted.
c.Person is convicted that pure speech is important, doesn't want to curse anymore
d.Person curses, some time passes, remembers desire not to curse, repents.
e.Same as d, but the time from curse to repentance shortens
f.Person starts to catch himself in the middle of cursing
g.Person begins to catch himself before cursing
h.Person no longer curses out out, but thinks it. Repents.
i.Time between thinking and repentance decreases.
j.Person eventually no longer curses when thinking.

It's actually more complicated than this, as I have heard of cases where a person didn't curse for years, but then something happens, and it comes out. The human mind is very complicated.

Also pure speech involves a lot more than simply not cursing. There is a positive aspect to it as well as the negative one.

Let's consider the theif on the cross. How far along would he have been in the process of a through j above? I think probably b. I doubt he even was as far along as c. It seems like you are suggesting a person has to be all the way to j, or God will not allow him to die. Am I understanding you correctly?

It's all much shorter and simpler than all that. Is the person being led by the Spirit? If he is when he dies, he's fine. If he's not when he dies, he's not.

As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God. Those who are not sons of God only have eternal death as an inheritance.