I would say that Ellen White's views matured over time, and that, as any growing Christian, she came to know and understand God, and the Plan of Salvation, better as she grew older, and this fact is reflected in her writings.

Old T:Regarding your question as to whether God condemns sinners, the following speaks to this:

"The destiny of the wicked is fixed by their own choice. Their exclusion from heaven is voluntary with themselves, and just and merciful on the part of God.(GC 541, emphasis mine)

M:Tom, my question was - "Scott, do you agree that the law condemns sinners to death?" What thinkest thou?

T:Yes, in the same sense that God does. That is, the destiny of the wicked is fixed by their own choice; their exclusion from heaven is voluntary with themselves. This choice is recognized by God, and the law, and thus God (or the law) condemns them. Basically they are choosing sin, which results in death, which both God and the law recognize as being the case.

Hi MM,

Welcome back!!!! Glad you had so much success with the youth!

To answer your question yes or no would not do justice to either the question or the answer because you might hear what I'm not saying.

Let’s define some thoughts about the law and see where we agree:

The principle of the law is love for God and love for our fellow man. Would you agree?

The law is a transcript of God's character! Would you agree with that?

A transcript is simply a written description of God's character. Therefore the law is summed up in "be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect". The true law, therefore, is the perfect standard of righteousness (i.e. God's character of love) Would you agree with this so far?

Yes, on all accounts. Also, thank you for the congrats. God is good. Thank you Jesus.

Law Suited to Holy Order of Beings.-- The Sabbath of the fourth commandment was instituted in Eden. After God had made the world, and created man upon the earth, He made the Sabbath for man. After Adam's sin and fall nothing was taken from the law of God. The principles of the ten commandments existed before the fall, and where of a character suited to the condition of a holy order of beings. After the fall, the principles of those precepts were not changed, but additional precepts were given to meet man in his fallen state (3SG 295). {1BC 1104.3}

Worded to Meet Fallen Intelligences.-- The law of Jehovah dating back to creation, was comprised in the two great principles, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. This is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." These two great principles embrace the first four commandments, showing the duty of man to God, and the last six, showing the duty of man to his fellowman. The principles were more explicitly stated to man after the fall, and worded to meet the case of fallen intelligences. This was necessary in consequence of the minds of men being blinded by transgression (ST April 15, 1875). {1BC 1104.4}

The law of God existed before the creation of man or else Adam could not have sinned. After the transgression of Adam the principles of the law were not changed, but were definitely arranged and expressed to meet man in his fallen condition. Christ, in counsel with His Father, instituted the system of sacrificial offerings; that death, instead of being immediately visited upon the transgressor, should be transferred to a victim which should prefigure the great and perfect offering of the son of God (Ibid., March 14, 1878). {1BC 1104.5}

Precepts Given to Guard Decalogue.-- In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai. Christ gave to Moses religious precepts which were to govern everyday life. These statutes were explicitly given to guard the ten commandments. They were not shadowy types to pass away with the death of Christ. They were to be binding upon men in every age as long as time should last. These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law (Ibid., April 15, 1875). {1BC 1104.6}

(Isa. 58:13, 14). Every Specification Is God's Character.-- The God of heaven has placed a benediction upon them that keep the commandments of God. Shall we stand as a peculiar people of God, or shall we trample upon the law of God and say it is not binding? God might just as well have abolished Himself. In the law every specification is the character of the infinite God (MS 12, 1894). {1BC 1104.7}

I would say that Ellen White's views matured over time, and that, as any growing Christian, she came to know and understand God, and the Plan of Salvation, better as she grew older, and this fact is reflected in her writings.

I would say that Ellen White's views matured over time, and that, as any growing Christian, she came to know and understand God, and the Plan of Salvation, better as she grew older, and this fact is reflected in her writings.

Please post where her earlier view of God was harsher than her later view.

Also, please post where "she moved from a strictly penal view to a more natural view of the destruction of the wicked."

Thank you.

The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government...(DA 22)

Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will. The horrible cruelties enacted in the destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's vindictive power over those who yield to his control. (GC 35, 36)

God does not force the will or judgment of any. He takes no pleasure in a slavish obedience. He desires that the creatures of his hands shall love him because he is worthy of love. He would have them obey him because they have an intelligent appreciation of his wisdom, justice, and benevolence. And all who have a just conception of these qualities will love him because they are drawn toward him in admiration of his attributes. (GC 541)

God could have destroyed Satan and his sympathizers as easily as one can cast a pebble to the earth; but He did not do this. Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy, and love; and the presentation of these principles is the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power. {DA 759.1}

Desire of Ages, pp. 112-113, Ellen White:
The Holy Spirit through Isaiah, taking up the illustration, prophesied of the Saviour, “He is brought as a Lamb to the slaughter,” “and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all” (Isa. 53:7,6); but the people of Israel had not understood the lesson. Many of them regarded the sacrificial offerings much as the heathen looked upon their sacrifices, - as gifts by which they themselves might propitiate the Deity. God desired to teach them that from His own love comes the gift which reconciles them to Himself.

"The atonement of Christ is not a mere skillful way to have our sins pardoned; it is a divine remedy for the cure of transgression and the restoration of spiritual health. It is the heaven-ordained means by which the righteousness of Christ may be not only upon us, but in our hearts and characters."--Letter 406, 1906. {7ABC 464.2}

"As the Saviour is lifted up before the people, they will see his humiliation, his self-denial, his self-sacrifice, his goodness, his tender compassion, his sufferings to save fallen man, and will realize that the atonement of Christ was not the cause of God's love, but the result of that love. Jesus died because God loved the world. The channel had to be made whereby the love of God should be recognized by man, and flow into the sinner's heart in perfect harmony with truth and justice." {RH, September 2, 1890 par. 7}