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Re: does God punish? [Re: asygo] #105120
11/25/08 03:38 AM
11/25/08 03:38 AM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
thats a good example!

but i can think of some variables.

for one, there is a parent who reasons with their child from day one, and the child pretty much listens. but he/she still decides to experiment. parent catches child, sits down and reasons with him/her, about the effects of smoking, possible pointing real people and what happened to them. child figures those are some pretty good reasons and stops.

another one, is child already decides he/she is not liking it anyway and has already decided not to do it again.

another, reasonable parent, strong-willed child, etc.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: does God punish? [Re: teresaq] #105121
11/25/08 04:18 AM
11/25/08 04:18 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: teresaq
for one, there is a parent who reasons with their child from day one, and the child pretty much listens. but he/she still decides to experiment. parent catches child, sits down and reasons with him/her, about the effects of smoking, possible pointing real people and what happened to them. child figures those are some pretty good reasons and stops.

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child. It is rare to find one who will give it up without needing the rod of correction.

Originally Posted By: teresaq
another one, is child already decides he/she is not liking it anyway and has already decided not to do it again.

That works out pretty well if there is such a case. But I doubt you will find a wise parent who will trust that his child's likes/dislikes constitute a safe guide.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: does God punish? [Re: asygo] #105123
11/25/08 05:23 AM
11/25/08 05:23 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Are you familiar with Good News Tour, Aaron?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: does God punish? [Re: Tom] #105162
11/26/08 02:16 AM
11/26/08 02:16 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Men flatter themselves that God is too good to punish the transgressor. {PP 420.2}

God has given in His word decisive evidence that He will punish the transgressors of His law. Those who flatter themselves that He is too merciful to execute justice upon the sinner, have only to look to the cross of Calvary. {GC 539.3}

If we lived in a dispensation of immediate retribution, offenses against God would not occur so often. But though delayed, the punishment is none the less certain. {3BC 1166.1}

Very few realize the sinfulness of sin; they flatter themselves that God is too good to punish the offender. But the cases of Miriam, Aaron, David, and many others show that it is not a safe thing to sin against God in deed, in word, or even in thought. God is a being of infinite love and compassion, but He also declares Himself to be a "consuming fire, even a jealous God" (RH Aug. 14, 1900). {3BC 1166.2}

Every offense against God's law, however minute, is set down in the reckoning, and when the sword of justice is taken in hand, it will do the work for impenitent transgressors that was done to the divine Sufferer. Justice will strike; for God's hatred of sin is intense and overwhelming (MS 58, 1897). {3BC 1166.3}

When God had said that the iniquity of the Amalekites was full, and had commanded him to destroy them utterly, he thought himself too compassionate to execute the divine sentence, and he spared that which was devoted to destruction. . . {CC 167.5}

The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2}

Who will say God will not do what He says He will do?--12MR 207-209; 10MR 265 (1876). {LDE 241.3}

Re: does God punish? [Re: asygo] #105163
11/26/08 02:20 AM
11/26/08 02:20 AM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: teresaq
for one, there is a parent who reasons with their child from day one, and the child pretty much listens. but he/she still decides to experiment. parent catches child, sits down and reasons with him/her, about the effects of smoking, possible pointing real people and what happened to them. child figures those are some pretty good reasons and stops.

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child. It is rare to find one who will give it up without needing the rod of correction.

Originally Posted By: teresaq
another one, is child already decides he/she is not liking it anyway and has already decided not to do it again.

That works out pretty well if there is such a case. But I doubt you will find a wise parent who will trust that his child's likes/dislikes constitute a safe guide.


hi arnold, smile

i mentioned the variables because of the variety of people ive met.

extremely rare is the first example where there was a trust thing between parent and child and believe it or not, according to the now adult child that was what happened. i didnt have that parent/child trust thing so it was alien to me.

i also know adult children who experimented and didnt like it, so they didnt take it on. parents didnt catch them, tho.

and then there are the other variables. i either popped out head-strong, or became that way to survive, dont know. so would sticking me in a closet have worked? maybe. it didnt happen. or would i have just determined not to get caught again?

Last edited by teresaq; 11/26/08 02:20 AM.

Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: does God punish? [Re: teresaq] #105194
11/26/08 03:36 PM
11/26/08 03:36 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
That's the big difference between a parent and a prison warden. One wants to mold character, while one wants compliant actions.

BTW, if you dig deeper into the experience of that "trusting" child, you will probably find that he wasn't that way at birth, and the trust was built over time.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: does God punish? [Re: asygo] #105209
11/26/08 07:37 PM
11/26/08 07:37 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
That's the big difference between a parent and a prison warden. One wants to mold character, while one wants compliant actions.

BTW, if you dig deeper into the experience of that "trusting" child, you will probably find that he wasn't that way at birth, and the trust was built over time.


my point. different variables, therefore different approaches to the problem. smile


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: does God punish? [Re: teresaq] #105218
11/26/08 11:43 PM
11/26/08 11:43 PM
A
Aaron  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 82
TN
Tom,

I am familiar with the Tour. I have listened to the 2006 presentation from Redlands, CA. It had Brad Cole, Ty Gibson, Marco Belmonte, and Tim Jennings, and a few others. They came through TN this year but I didnt get a catch to go. Dr. Jennings teaches a SS class here in my town and I would encourage anyone to download at least the lesson on 1844 and the Judgement on comeandreason.com. Also Im sure this quarterly's comments will be great as well. I really like what these guys are doing. I think the Tour was brought on up this forum when Boyd posted in his blog about it because the Tour used a picture of Jesus washing the feet of world leaders and bin Laden was in the picture. One thing I like about Jennings is he basically throws out penal substitution.

Aaron

Re: does God punish? [Re: Mountain Man] #105245
11/27/08 05:19 PM
11/27/08 05:19 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, Aaron, and Teresaq - Do you agree with the following insights?

Quote:
Men flatter themselves that God is too good to punish the transgressor. {PP 420.2}

God has given in His word decisive evidence that He will punish the transgressors of His law. Those who flatter themselves that He is too merciful to execute justice upon the sinner, have only to look to the cross of Calvary. {GC 539.3}

If we lived in a dispensation of immediate retribution, offenses against God would not occur so often. But though delayed, the punishment is none the less certain. {3BC 1166.1}

Very few realize the sinfulness of sin; they flatter themselves that God is too good to punish the offender. But the cases of Miriam, Aaron, David, and many others show that it is not a safe thing to sin against God in deed, in word, or even in thought. God is a being of infinite love and compassion, but He also declares Himself to be a "consuming fire, even a jealous God" (RH Aug. 14, 1900). {3BC 1166.2}

Every offense against God's law, however minute, is set down in the reckoning, and when the sword of justice is taken in hand, it will do the work for impenitent transgressors that was done to the divine Sufferer. Justice will strike; for God's hatred of sin is intense and overwhelming (MS 58, 1897). {3BC 1166.3}

When God had said that the iniquity of the Amalekites was full, and had commanded [King Saul] to destroy them utterly, he thought himself too compassionate to execute the divine sentence, and he spared that which was devoted to destruction. . . {CC 167.5}

The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2}

Who will say God will not do what He says He will do?--12MR 207-209; 10MR 265 (1876). {LDE 241.3}

"Who will say God will not do what He says He will do?" What do you hear God saying in these quotes that He will do?

Re: does God punish? [Re: Mountain Man] #105252
11/27/08 06:57 PM
11/27/08 06:57 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Tom, Aaron, and Teresaq - Do you agree with the following insights?

Quote:
Men flatter themselves that God is too good to punish the transgressor. {PP 420.2}

God has given in His word decisive evidence that He will punish the transgressors of His law. Those who flatter themselves that He is too merciful to execute justice upon the sinner, have only to look to the cross of Calvary. {GC 539.3}

If we lived in a dispensation of immediate retribution, offenses against God would not occur so often. But though delayed, the punishment is none the less certain. {3BC 1166.1}

Very few realize the sinfulness of sin; they flatter themselves that God is too good to punish the offender. But the cases of Miriam, Aaron, David, and many others show that it is not a safe thing to sin against God in deed, in word, or even in thought. God is a being of infinite love and compassion, but He also declares Himself to be a "consuming fire, even a jealous God" (RH Aug. 14, 1900). {3BC 1166.2}

Every offense against God's law, however minute, is set down in the reckoning, and when the sword of justice is taken in hand, it will do the work for impenitent transgressors that was done to the divine Sufferer. Justice will strike; for God's hatred of sin is intense and overwhelming (MS 58, 1897). {3BC 1166.3}

When God had said that the iniquity of the Amalekites was full, and had commanded [King Saul] to destroy them utterly, he thought himself too compassionate to execute the divine sentence, and he spared that which was devoted to destruction. . . {CC 167.5}

The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2}

Who will say God will not do what He says He will do?--12MR 207-209; 10MR 265 (1876). {LDE 241.3}

"Who will say God will not do what He says He will do?" What do you hear God saying in these quotes that He will do?


id be interested in hearing how you read them, first. we might not be that far apart in understanding.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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