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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: teresaq] #106680
12/28/08 11:15 PM
12/28/08 11:15 PM
Tom  Offline
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Lawrence, Kansas
I agree some go to far. Christ took our fallen, or sinful, nature, but never participated in sin. We should be careful in how we express things so as not to give a wrong impression. For this reason, I like sticking as close to what the SOP says as possible. It looks to me like Paulson has done this.

While it's true some may go to far, we also don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: teresaq] #106702
12/29/08 10:59 AM
12/29/08 10:59 AM
Tammy Roesch  Offline
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Posts: 562
North East OHIO
Originally Posted By: teresaq
who is arguing that we cannot overcome all evil in our characters?

you all dont see that some go too far?


They go way too far! But that is how you can tell if someone is on the right track or not, is to follow their line of thinking out as far as you can...when you follow this line of thinking out, this is where it leads....to Paulson's conclusions...most people would have a hard time saying what he says, because it is so clearly wrong...but they want to still hold to his belief that there was a part of Jesus that had evil propensities!

Quote:
In short, Jesus had sinful passions and evil propensities in His lower nature, where He kept them under the control of a sanctified will -- as indeed we may, through His power. But He did not have these passions and propensities in His higher nature, where we need not retain them either. Copied from another forum. .


There were no sinful passions or evil propensities in Jesus, anywhere.... Again, this is nothing less than blasphemy!


Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69}

Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Mountain Man] #106705
12/29/08 01:47 PM
12/29/08 01:47 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
I came across the following statement in relation to this aspect of the life of Christ:
Quote:

In SDA theology Christ desired and lusted to sin but did not yield to His temptation to sin....

If anybody told you what I quoted above, how would you have responded to this?

Would you have agreed with the above quoted statement, or would you have disagreed with it?

Why would you either agree or disagree?

I would clarify it in the following way: In SDA theology the sinful flesh Jesus inherited at birth tempted Him to indulge the sins common to man, but not only did He resist the unholy clamorings of His fallen flesh, He was also repulsed by them.


This is the correct reading as Christ had what allowed him to be tempted in all facets of sin, including sexual sins. But yet he did not fall into them even with all the women he encountered, and he made clear that even checking out a woman to see her sexuality rose to the level of sin.

Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Tammy Roesch] #106707
12/29/08 02:01 PM
12/29/08 02:01 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tammy Roesch
Originally Posted By: Richard
Originally Posted By: Tammy Roesch
[quote=teresaq]

Quote:
In SDA theology Christ desired and lusted to sin but did not yield to His temptation to sin....


do we give the impression we believe this? apparently we do.
in light of that should we be more careful?


Unfortunately, Teresaq, I think many Adventists do believe this.

Are you familiar with Dennis Preibe? He wrote a book, nearly 20 years ago, called "Face to Face With the Real Gospel". He is considered a Conservative among Adventists. He is/was (not sure) a professor at one of our schools.... Most conservatives we talk with, think he is correct in his thinking...and this is from the first edition of the book...(he since reprinted it and reworded it, but he told us personally he still believes what he originally wrote)...Years ago, after my husband and I had both read this book, he wrote a little booklet called, "Beware of the Leaven of the Pharisess".... I'll quote a bit of it here...sorry it is so long....but if you read it, I think you'll find it very enlightening.

Quote:
The first point that I want to look at is on pg. 59 (FACE TO FACE *). “Why did Jesus say, ‘I seek not mine own will’ (John 5:30), and ‘I come down from heaven, not to do mine own will’ (John 7:38)? Why would it be necessary to say this if His own will was faultless and pure, and holy? But if His own will and His own inclinations were tending toward the negative, then it would make sense for Him to ask that His Father’s will be done.” Please realize that Priebe is here saying that Jesus’ will was NOT “faultless, pure and holy” and also that “His own will and His own inclinations were tending toward the negative.” He is also interpreting John 5 & 6 to be saying that Jesus’ “will” was different than His Father’s. There are two parts to this that I want to examine: His “will” and His “inclination”.

Priebe says, “His own will was tending toward the negative.” I just want to compare this to three Spirit of Prophecy quotes.

“The WILL, refined and sanctified, will find its highest delight in doing His service.” DA-668.

“The time of the Passover was drawing near, and again Jesus turned toward Jerusalem. In His heart was the peace of PERFECT ONENESS WITH THE Father’s WILL, and with eager steps He pressed on toward the place of sacrifice.” DA-547. “...perfect ones with the Father’s WILL”. Can Priebe’s statements and this quote be made to harmonize?

The last quote may be the best one for this comparison, because it is from the chapter in Desire of Ages, which is a commentary on John 5, which Priebe uses to say that Jesus’ will was contrary to His Father’s and that “His own will was tending toward the negative.” In Desire of Ages, pg. 208 she says, “Jesus repelled the charge of blasphemy. My authority, He said, for doing the work of which you accuse Me, is that I am the Son of God, one with Him in nature, in WILL, and in purpose.” In the very discourse where Jesus is claiming His oneness with God, (“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” John 5:18.), and where Ellen White says He is “one with Him in WILL”, Priebe is saying “His will was tending toward the negative”, and contrary to His Father’s. I find this incredible! Please read those chapters for yourself – John 5 and “Bethesaida and the Sanhedrin” and decide for yourself. On pg. 210 of Desire of Ages, she says, “The humble Nazarene asserts His real nobility. He rises above humanity, throws off the guise of sin and shame, and stands revealed, the Honored of the angels, the Son of God, One with the Creator of the universe. His hearers are spellbound. No man has ever spoken words like His, or borne himself with such a kingly majesty. His utterances are clear and plain, fully declaring His mission, and the duty of the world.”

And as an answer to the often asked questions, “Why did Jesus say ‘I seek not mine own will’?” First, He was trying to make them understand that everything He did was from God the Father – Whom they claimed to acknowledge as their supreme Ruler – (Jesus, they didn’t acknowledge), and that in rejecting Him, they were truly rejecting God. “He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent Him.” John 5:23. A similar statement is found in one of the very next chapters of John’s Gospel, where He says, “My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.” John 7:16. Again He was trying to make them understand that in rejecting His “doctrine”, they were in reality, rejecting God’s doctrine. No on would ever say that Jesus was here saying His “doctrine” was different from His Fathers’. Secondly, Jesus was showing an EXAMPE of submission and surrender to God, just as He was baptized as an example. Please read pgs. 208 and 209 of Desire of Ages. She gives a very strong illustration of this. And in the midst it says, “He (Jesus) said, ‘I DELIGHT to do Thy WILL....” (Psalms 40:8).

The Bible says God’s will is, “This is the WILL of God even your sanctification.” 1 Thes. 4:3. IF Jesus’ will was different from God’s, what would this mean? Ellen White says, “From His earliest years He was possessed of one purpose; He lived to bless others.” DA-70. “Jesus alone could read this secret. Yet He did not expose him. Jesus hungered for his soul. He felt for him such a burden as for Jerusalem when He wept over the doomed city. His heart was crying, ‘How can I give thee up’?” I believe it can be equally said of Jesus: “This is the will of God, even your sanctification.”

The other part of the quote that I want to look at concerns His “inclinations”. “His own INCLINATION was tending toward the negative”, Priebe says in FACE TO FACE, pg. 59. In BC-1128, Ellen White says, “NEVER in ANY way, leave the SLIGHTEST impression upon human minds that a taint of or INCLINATION to corruption rested upon Christ, or that He in any way yielded to corruption.” Please read this quote over and over and let every word have its proper bearing, and then compare both quotes very carefully. There is no way that these quotes can be made to harmonize. The subject of our “inclinations” deserves further study, but I won’t spend time on that in this paper.

The next quote I want to look at is on FACE to FACE, pg. 60. Here he says “He knew what it was like to want to go wrong. He knew what it was like to feel the temptation to rebel against God, and that temptation arose within His nature.” There are also two points in this quote that I want to examine. First, “He knew what it was like to WANT to go wrong”. Please realize that he is saying Jesus knew by experience. I again want to compare a few Ellen White quotes with this statement. The first is from 1888 Materials pg. 538. “...as we are clothed with the righteousness of Christ we have a power and a strength that is imparted unto us, and we will not WANT to sin.” “...we will not WANT to sin”. Again, I believe there is no way these two quotes can be made to harmonize. Here are a few more to consider. “Never before had there been a being upon the earth who hated sin with so perfect a hatred as did Christ.” 1SM-254. “...Never lived there another who so hated evil.” ED-79. Try to think of anything you have a “perfect” hatred for and then ask yourself if you “want” to do it. In 7BC-927, she says, “...the refined sensibilities of His holy nature rendered contact with evil unspeakably painful to Him.” Can you imagine “wanting” to do something that in just witnessing it you find “unspeakably painful”? She also says, “...as the sinless one His nature recoiled from evil.” SC-93, 94.

Please allow me to make one illustration. To me, one of the most sickening things I can think of is child sexual abuse. If there is anything I “hate with a perfect hatred”, “recoil” from, find “unspeakably painful”, it is this. I believe with all my heart that never in a million years would I for one second “WANT” to do this.

The second part of that quote I want to look at says, “He knew what it was like to feel the temptation to rebel against God, AND THAT TEMPTATION, AROSE FROM WITHIN HIS NATURE.” FACE to FACE, pg. 60. In Mount of Blessings, pg. 116, it says, “Temptation is enticement to sin, and this does not proceed from God, but from #1) from Satan and #2) from the evil of our own hearts.” I find Priebe’s quote very disturbing in the light of this quote. Now coming from a different aspect is this quote, “The completeness of Christian character is attained when the impulse to help and bless others springs constantly from WITHIN.” AA-551. Once again I find a serious conflict between what Ellen White says and what Priebe says.

On pg. 59, Priebe says, “Are not our problems basically self and pride and the desire that come from our fallen nature? Do we not fall most often because of the inner desire that lead us astray? If Jesus did not have any of these, could it really be true that He was tempted in all points as we are?” This quote is absolutely incredible! And I thank God that he chose the specific words that he did – SELF and PRIDE.

Please compare his statement with the following six quotes:

1). “So utterly was Christ emptied of SELF that He made no plans for Himself.”
DA-208.
2). “The drunkard is despised and is told that his sin will exclude him from
heaven; while PRIDE, selfishness, and covetousness too often go unrebuked.
But these are sins that are especially offense to God; for they are contrary
to the benevolence of His character, to that unselfish love which is the
very atmosphere of the unfallen universe.” SC-30.
3). “The divine love ruling in the heart EXTERMINATES PRIDE and selfishness.”
5T-168.
4). “Human nature is ever struggling for expression, ready for contest; but he
who learns of Christ is EMPTIED of SELF, of PRIDE, of love of supremacy,
and there is silence in the soul.” MB-15.
5). “PRIDE, ambition, deceit, hatred, selfishness, must be cleansed from the
heart.” 5T-175.
6). “It was the PRIDE and ambition cherished in the heart of Satan that
banished him from heaven. These evils are deeply rooted in our fallen
nature, and if not REMOVED they will overshadow every good and noble
quality and bring forth envy and strife as their baleful fruits.” 5T-242.

There is one more very important point which must be examined. It concerns what Christ inherited by nature. Priebe is very correct in opposing the New Theology teaching that Christ came with an unfallen nature or the nature of Adam before the fall. But in doing this he makes some very grave mistakes. On pg. 55, he says, “If Jesus’ life is to have any meaning as an example for us, then it is crucial that He inherit just what I inherit.” In his own book, Priebe says, “We do inherit BADNESS, weakness, and CORRUPTION from Adam.” Pg. 27. Again Priebe says on pg. 55, “...it is, crucial that He inherit just what I inherit.” Ellen White says,”...Because of sin his (Adam’s) posterity was BORN with PROPENSITIES OF DISOBEDIENCE. But Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of God...not for one moment was there in Him an evil propensity.” BC-1128. Ellen White clearly teaches WE INHERIT evil propensities, in the same paragraph she contrasts Christ with us and she says He did not inherit evil propensities.” On pg. 54, he says, “The crucial point is that a sinful propensity is permitted to develop from our INHERITED bent to evil. Jesus never developed such sinful propensities.” And on pg. 55, is the sentence, “If Jesus’ life is to have any meaning as an example for us, then it is CRUCIAL that He inherit JUST what I inherit.” Please reread those last two quotes very closely. Priebe is clearly and openly teaching that Jesus Christ had a bent to evil. Please give this point some very serious thought and study. How you stand on it is absolutely critical. Remember, “He is the Pattern Man.” 7BC-970.


Tammy,
In what I have studied of his writings, I have not come across where Dennis Preibe says that Christ desired or lusted to sin, do you have a link or sermon...?

As for any Adventist believing this, I have never come across this...
Rick


Good Morning, Richard,
I only have his original printing here...but as I said before, we spoke with him personally, and he stands by what he said in the 1985 edition. Priebe says,
Quote:
"Are not our problems basically self and pride and the desires that come from our fallen natures? Do we not fall most often because of the inner desires that lead us astray? If Jesus did not have any of these, could it really be true that He was tempted in all points as we are?" FF-59.
Compare his statement here to what Inspiration says of self and pride:

Quote:
“It was the PRIDE and ambition cherished in the heart of Satan that banished him from heaven. These evils are deeply rooted in our fallen nature, and if not REMOVED they will overshadow every good and noble quality and bring forth envy and strife as their baleful fruits.” 5T-242.

“Human nature is ever struggling for expression, ready for contest; but he who learns of Christ is EMPTIED of SELF, of PRIDE, of love of supremacy, and there is silence in the soul.” MB-15.


And, on the same page in his book, he says,
Quote:
Note that He had to resist the inclination to use His power. Where did that inclination come from if not from within, from His own desires? Why did Jesus say, 'I seek not mine own will' (John 5:30), and 'I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will' (John 6:38)? Why would it be necessary to say this if His own will was faultless and pure and holy? But, if His own will and His own inclination were tending toward the negative, then it would make sense for Him to ask that His Father's will be done.


I believe it is nothing less than blasphemy to say that Jesus' own will was faulty, impure and unholy. That is what he is saying when he says, "Why would it be necessary to say this IF His own will was faultless and pure and holy? But, if His own will and His own inclination were tending toward the negative, then it would make sense...."
[/quote]

Dennis has stepped over that line that says that Christ had sin or lustful desire in his heart as obviously he did not or he could not be a lamb without sin or blemish to present as a sacrifice. We must always keep in mind it is one thing to be weakened lets say we have a compromised immune system that makes us less resistant to getting AIDS, yet we take follow a path and take care of ourselves so we dont get it from our actions.

Christ took our weakened immune system and resisted the temptation that would have led to death, he didnt let it work itself into a desire so he could go over sin in his mind and his body be filled with lustful sin, but resisted it in mind and body. Thus the mind of Christ was kept free from sin and temptation, yet he still was at the same stage of weakness as we are....


Last edited by Richard; 12/29/08 02:04 PM.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Tammy Roesch] #106708
12/29/08 02:13 PM
12/29/08 02:13 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Posts: 3,121
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Tammy Roesch
Kevin Paulson, who agrees with Priebe, says it like this:
Quote:
'His character revealed a perfect hatred for sin' (5BC 1142).

But notice it is the CHARACTER, not the flesh, that is being referred to here. It doesn't say Jesus' fleshly nature revealed a perfect hatred for sin, but rather, His character. And regarding the statement that "the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me" (John 14:30), Ellen White is clear this is a matter of CHERISHED sinful desires, not the lower nature we are born with.
Statement made on GCOList 2004.

Another statement by Paulson:
Quote:
In the pamphlet A Solemn Appeal, devoted to the topic of sexual indulgence, listen to what Ellen White says about Jesus' familiarity with our temptations:

"All are accountable for their actions while upon probation in this world. All have power to control their actions. If they are weak in virtue and purity of thoughts and acts, they can obtain help from the Friend of the helpless. Jesus is acquainted with all the weaknesses of human nature, and if entreated, will give strength to overcome the most powerful temptations" (A Solemn Appeal, p. 78; quoted in OHC 337).

I might add that the only weaknesses being discussed in the context of this statement are sexual weaknesses. Ellen White is certainly not speaking here of benign human weaknesses such as hunger, thirst, fatigue, etc. The weaknesses being described in the above context, which our Lord is here declared to be "aquainted with," are internal inclinations toward sexual indulgence and immorality.
And how, let us consider again, is Jesus declared to "know" our weaknesses?

"He knows BY EXPERIENCE what are the weaknesses of humanity, what are our wants, and where lies the strength of our temptations, for He was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (DA 3329).

Notice once again how Jesus knows "by experience . . . where lies the strength of our tempations," the strongest of which--according to the previous passage--come from within...




Can you see how this thinking does not agree with the Spirit of Prophecy?


Some people including pastors want to find a excuse for their lustful desires, lets say you go to the beach and on Miami Beach they have sections that partial nudity is allowed. Well if you go there its only for one reason, you cannot really excuse it but some people look to rationalize it. I think anyone that says that Jesus carried lustful desire in his heart is trying to rationalize a sin that has been planted and been allowed to grow in their own heart, what better way to excuse it than to say Christ let lustful desires go into his thoughts and within his heart.

Last edited by Richard; 12/29/08 02:14 PM.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Rick H] #106723
12/29/08 07:49 PM
12/29/08 07:49 PM
teresaq  Offline
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that may be true, but im willing to cut them a break and believe that in their need to defend post-lapsarian they are just going too deep and too far.

when i read such passages, long before i ever heard of pre/post lapsarian stuff i never came to such conclusions and i think i will stick with i read and not what im told it says.



Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: teresaq] #106744
12/29/08 11:41 PM
12/29/08 11:41 PM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
There were no sinful passions or evil propensities in Jesus, anywhere....


Not even in His flesh?

Quote:
Again, this is nothing less than blasphemy!


Is it blasphemy to say that Jesus Christ had sinful flesh? Or "flesh of sin"? Or that He took our sinful nature?

Rather than simply labeling concepts in a pejorative way, I think it would be more fruitful to consider the concepts being presented, and, if you disagree with them, present some argument as to why.

Quote:
EGW:Adam was tempted by the enemy, and he fell. It was not indwelling sin which caused him to yield, for God made him pure and upright in His own image. He was as faultless as the angels before the throne. There were in him no corrupt principles, no tendencies to evil. But when Christ came to meet with temptations of Satan, He bore the "likeness of sinful flesh" (Signs of the Times, Oct. 17, 1900).

Paulson:This passage makes no sense unless we acknowledge that Christ had tendencies to evil in His lower nature. Note again that it says Adam had no "indwelling sin," "no corrupt principles, no tendencies to evil." Then the next sentence reads, "But when Christ came to meet the temptations of Satan, He bore the 'likeness of sinful flesh.'" All the arguments we often hear about the "likeness of sinful flesh" (Rom. 8:3) are beside the point so far as this statement is concerned, since the expression is used here to draw a contrast with the unfallen Adam -- who, the statement tells us, had no indwelling sin, corrupt principles, or tendencies to evil. Certainly such terms as "indwelling sin" and "corrupt principles" could not apply to Jesus, but at least it must be acknowledged that Jesus' fleshly nature included tendencies to evil. Otherwise the statement offers no contrast with Adam, and makes no sense at all.


Do you disagree with this argument? If so, why?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Tom] #106745
12/29/08 11:49 PM
12/29/08 11:49 PM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Dennis has stepped over that line that says that Christ had sin or lustful desire in his heart as obviously he did not or he could not be a lamb without sin or blemish to present as a sacrifice.


He didn't say this, did he? I mean that Christ had sin or lustful desire in His heart. If so, I didn't see it. Could you quote the statement please?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Tom] #106747
12/29/08 11:56 PM
12/29/08 11:56 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
I think anyone that says that Jesus carried lustful desire in his heart is trying to rationalize a sin that has been planted and been allowed to grow in their own heart, what better way to excuse it than to say Christ let lustful desires go into his thoughts and within his heart.


This seems way out of line to me. First of all, I couldn't see where Dennis said that Jesus carried lustful desire in his heart. Secondly, to ascribe a reason for someone's having a certain belief that imputes sin to that person is totally uncalled for.

Say a person doesn't believe that Christ could be tempted with sexual sin. A person could formulate a similar argument to what you're suggesting against you (which would be just as out of line).

Let's just stick to the concepts being discussed here without accusing people of blasphemy or sin.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Tom] #106749
12/30/08 12:44 AM
12/30/08 12:44 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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The idea that Jesus assumed the "form and nature" of Adam before the Fall is in direct contradiction to what Ellen wrote about Jesus' human form and nature. Listen:

He sent His Son into the world, that through His taking the human form and nature, humanity and divinity combined in Him would elevate man in the scale of moral value with God. {1SM 340.3}

It was in the order of God that Christ should take upon himself the form and nature of fallen man, that he might be made perfect through suffering, and endure himself the strength of Satan's temptations, that he might the better know how to succor those who should be tempted. {4aSG 115.3}

I find it comforting that Ellen makes it clear that the righteous traits of character Jesus developed throughout His life on earth was developed with the same form and nature all of us inherited at birth and in the same way born again believers develop righteous traits of character. Listen:

Christ lived the law of God in humanity, and so may man do if he will by faith take hold on the strong and mighty One for strength. {TM 282.3}

Christ came to live the law in His human character in just that way in which all may live the law in human nature if they will do as Christ was doing. {3SM 129.4}

"The prince of this world cometh," said Jesus, "and hath nothing in me." There was in Him nothing that responded to Satan's sophistry. He did not consent to sin. Not even by a thought did He yield to temptation. So may it be with us. Christ's humanity was united with divinity; He was fitted for the conflict by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. {RC 308.6}

God was manifested in Him that He might be manifested in them. Jesus revealed no qualities, and exercised no powers, that men may not have through faith in Him. His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was. {DA 664.4}

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Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 05/03/24 02:55 AM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 04/30/24 10:34 PM
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by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
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by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
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by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
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by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
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by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
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Destruction of Canadian culture
by ProdigalOne. 04/05/24 07:46 AM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
What Does EGW Say About Ordination?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 07:26 PM
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 10:09 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 05/02/24 08:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by dedication. 04/22/24 06:04 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
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