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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Mountain Man] #106750
12/30/08 12:47 AM
12/30/08 12:47 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Wait, there's more:

If we had to bear anything which Jesus did not endure, then upon this point Satan would represent the power of God as insufficient for us. Therefore Jesus was “in all points tempted like as we are.” Heb. 4:15. He endured every trial to which we are subject. And He exercised in His own behalf no power that is not freely offered to us. As man, He met temptation, and overcame in the strength given Him from God. (DA 24)

If Christ had a special power which it is not the privilege of man to have, Satan would have made capital of this matter. The work of Christ was to take from the claims of Satan his control of man, and He could do this only in the way that He came – a man, tempted as a man, rendering the obedience of a man. (7BC 930) Unless there is a possibility of yielding, temptation is no temptation. Temptation is resisted when man is powerfully influenced to do a wrong action; and, knowing that he can do it, resists, by faith, with a firm hold upon divine power. This was the ordeal through which Christ passed. (3SM 132)

Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Mountain Man] #106751
12/30/08 12:51 AM
12/30/08 12:51 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
Let's just stick to the concepts being discussed here without accusing people of blasphemy or sin.

Wise counsel, Tom. Thank you. It reminds me of the following counsel Ellen shared:

The way to dispel darkness is to admit light. The best way to deal with error is to present truth. It is the revelation of God's love that makes manifest the deformity and sin of the heart centered in self. {DA 498.5}

Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Mountain Man] #106763
12/30/08 05:39 AM
12/30/08 05:39 AM
teresaq  Offline
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Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Quote:
Wonderful in its significance is the brief record of His early life: "The child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon Him." In the sunlight of His Father's countenance, Jesus "increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man." Luke 2:52. His mind was active and penetrating, with a thoughtfulness and wisdom beyond His years. Yet His character was beautiful in its symmetry. The powers of mind and body developed gradually, in keeping with the laws of childhood. {DA 68.2}
As a child, Jesus manifested a peculiar loveliness of disposition. His willing hands were ever ready to serve others. He manifested a patience that nothing could disturb, and a truthfulness that would never sacrifice integrity. In principle firm as a rock, His life revealed the grace of unselfish courtesy. {DA 68.3}
With deep earnestness the mother of Jesus watched the unfolding of His powers, and beheld the impress of perfection upon His character. With delight she sought to encourage that bright, receptive mind. Through the Holy Spirit she received wisdom to co-operate with the heavenly agencies in the development of this child, who could claim only God as His Father. {DA 69.1}

Since He gained knowledge as we may do, His intimate acquaintance with the Scriptures shows how diligently His early years were given to the study of God's word. And spread out before Him was the great library of God's created works. He who had made all things studied the lessons which His own hand had written in earth and sea and sky. Apart from the unholy ways of the world, He gathered stores of scientific knowledge from nature. He studied the life of plants and animals, and the life of man. From His earliest years He was possessed of one purpose; He lived to bless others. For this He found resources in nature; new ideas of ways and means flashed into His mind as He studied plant life and animal life. Continually He was seeking to draw from things seen illustrations by which to present the living oracles of God. The parables by which, during His ministry, He loved to teach His lessons of truth show how open His spirit was to the influences of nature, and how He had gathered the spiritual teaching from the surroundings of His daily life. {DA 70.2}
Thus to Jesus the significance of the word and the works of God was unfolded, as He was trying to understand the reason of things. Heavenly beings were His attendants, and the culture of holy thoughts and communings was His. From the first dawning of intelligence He was constantly growing in spiritual grace and knowledge of truth. {DA 70.3}


this is what im used to reading. now how does what is being said top this? or why should i trade such enobling elavating thoughts as these for such base, crude ones........?

Last edited by teresaq; 12/30/08 05:43 AM.

Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: teresaq] #106767
12/30/08 06:32 AM
12/30/08 06:32 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
A little earlier she wrote:

Quote:
The story of Bethlehem is an exhaustless theme. In it is hidden "the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God." Rom. 11:33. We marvel at the Saviour's sacrifice in exchanging the throne of heaven for the manger, and the companionship of adoring angels for the beasts of the stall. Human pride and self-sufficiency stand rebuked in His presence. Yet this was but the beginning of His wonderful condescension. It would have been an almost infinite humiliation for the Son of God to take man's nature, even when Adam stood in his innocence in Eden. But Jesus accepted humanity when the race had been weakened by four thousand years of sin. Like every child of Adam He accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity. What these results were is shown in the history of His earthly ancestors. He came with such a heredity to share our sorrows and temptations, and to give us the example of a sinless life.

Satan in heaven had hated Christ for His position in the courts of God. He hated Him the more when he himself was dethroned. He hated Him who pledged Himself to redeem a race of sinners. Yet into the world where Satan claimed dominion God permitted His Son to come, a helpless babe, subject to the weakness of humanity. He permitted Him to meet life's peril in common with every human soul, to fight the battle as every child of humanity must fight it, at the risk of failure and eternal loss.

The heart of the human father yearns over his son. He looks into the face of his little child, and trembles at the thought of life's peril. He longs to shield his dear one from Satan's power, to hold him back from temptation and conflict. To meet a bitterer conflict and a more fearful risk, God gave His only-begotten Son, that the path of life might be made sure for our little ones. "Herein is love." Wonder, O heavens! and be astonished, O earth! (DA 48)


I think these are elevating thoughts too.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Mountain Man] #106769
12/30/08 02:01 PM
12/30/08 02:01 PM
Rick H  Offline
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Wait, there's more:

If we had to bear anything which Jesus did not endure, then upon this point Satan would represent the power of God as insufficient for us. Therefore Jesus was “in all points tempted like as we are.” Heb. 4:15. He endured every trial to which we are subject. And He exercised in His own behalf no power that is not freely offered to us. As man, He met temptation, and overcame in the strength given Him from God. (DA 24)

If Christ had a special power which it is not the privilege of man to have, Satan would have made capital of this matter. The work of Christ was to take from the claims of Satan his control of man, and He could do this only in the way that He came – a man, tempted as a man, rendering the obedience of a man. (7BC 930) Unless there is a possibility of yielding, temptation is no temptation. Temptation is resisted when man is powerfully influenced to do a wrong action; and, knowing that he can do it, resists, by faith, with a firm hold upon divine power. This was the ordeal through which Christ passed. (3SM 132)


Those are excellent MM,

Christ had to be like us and bear the temptation to sin and be capable of sin so Satan could not represent the power of God as insufficient for us. But man in allowing themselves to entertain the sin takes a step beyond temptation, which then develops a desire for it once it had been tasted in the mind which leads to the action of doing it. Christ didnt let it dwell in his mind or cross into a desire to sin, and we have the same power from the divine to resist and become dead to sin.....


Last edited by Richard; 12/30/08 02:02 PM.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Rick H] #106783
12/30/08 06:01 PM
12/30/08 06:01 PM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
thank you, richard. i think that states the issue very well without going too far into "what that means".

actually, that is so good im going to put it on a card for "stability". smile


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: teresaq] #106785
12/30/08 06:06 PM
12/30/08 06:06 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
But man in allowing themselves to entertain the sin takes a step beyond temptation, which then develops a desire for it once it had been tasted in the mind which leads to the action of doing it.


Of course this is exactly what man needs help with. How does man receive help from this from Christ, assuming this is not something that Christ ever received help for?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Tom] #106846
12/31/08 10:30 AM
12/31/08 10:30 AM
Tammy Roesch  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 562
North East OHIO
I believe a point of this discussion that is often misunderstood is "temptation", "What is temptation?" Most people believe that unless you find something tempting, that it is really no temptation. For example, that if you don't like the taste of chocolate, then when someone offers you chocolate, it is really no temptation, because you didn't like it in the first place.

This is a really dangerous and false conclusion.

For example, two people are sitting together, and someone comes in with a plate of chocolate candy. He offers both of them the candy. One person loves chocolate, the other one hates it. But, both of them are being tempted by the tempter with the chocolate. The difference is the response from both of them. One reaches out for it, the other pushes it away.

That is how it is with all sin, for all of us, including Jesus. Jesus was tempted "in all points like as we are", but He NEVER found the sin "tempting". We, on the other hand, too many times, find the sin tempting....Satan finds within our hearts an answering chord. He never found any answering chord for sin in the heart of Jesus, nothing ever responded to his temptations.

Quote:
Temptations from without find an answering chord within the heart, and the feet turn imperceptibly toward evil. As the sacrifice in our behalf was complete, so our restoration from the defilement of sin is to be complete. There is no act of wickedness that the law will excuse; there is no unrighteousness that will escape its condemnation. The life of Christ was a perfect fulfillment of every precept of the law. He said; "I have kept my Father's commandments." John 15:10. His life is our standard of obedience and service. {Mar 91.2}
Today Satan presents the same temptations that he presented to Christ, offering us the kingdoms of the world in return for our allegiance. But upon him who looks to Jesus as the author and finisher of his faith, Satan's temptations have no power. He cannot cause to sin the one who will accept by faith the virtues of Him who was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. {Mar 91.3}


So, when we are told that Jesus was "tempted in all points", it doesn't mean there was ANYTHING in Him that pulled toward the temptation...it just means that Satan hit Him on every topic from every angle that he could, and still,

Quote:
The time had come for Satan’s last attempt to overcome Christ. But Christ declared, He hath nothing in Me, no sin that brings Me in his power. He can find nothing in Me that responds to his satanic suggestions. . . . {CTr 260.4}


This is the point we all can amd must come to... We will not be safe to save until we reach the point that Satan finds in us no answering chord for his temptations...

Sadly, many, instead of admitting that they are not right spiritually, because they still find sin alluring...they try to lower the standard and say that "Jesus' inclinations were 'tending toward the negative' (Priebe, Paulson and many others), so if His inclinations were tending toward the negative, they can feel pretty good about their own inclinations that are still tending towards the negative....but it is all a deception! Jesus never had inclinations that were "tending toward the negative"... I have to say it again, that is just plain blasphemy.


Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69}

Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Tammy Roesch] #106847
12/31/08 10:39 AM
12/31/08 10:39 AM
Tammy Roesch  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 562
North East OHIO
One more thought...I believe there couldn't be a more important topic than this one. Honestly, I believe this teaching that Jesus was "inclined toward the negative" is the OMEGA. We are told that what Jesus is waiting for, to return, is for a people who reflect His character perfectly. Well, how can people reflect His chracter perfectly if they have a wrong understanding of what His character was? Satan knows this and it is his studied effort to get us to have a false understanding of the character of Christ for the very purpose of putting off the 2nd coming...if he can continue to deceive us as to what the character of Christ is really like, we will continue, as a people, to pattern after the wrong pattern, thinking all the time, that we are copying the real pattern!

There are lots of other reasons I believe this is the OMEGA but I don't have time right now to share them....


Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69}

Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin? [Re: Tammy Roesch] #106876
12/31/08 04:46 PM
12/31/08 04:46 PM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Tammy Roesch
I believe a point of this discussion that is often misunderstood is "temptation", "What is temptation?" Most people believe that unless you find something tempting, that it is really no temptation. For example, that if you don't like the taste of chocolate, then when someone offers you chocolate, it is really no temptation, because you didn't like it in the first place.

This is a really dangerous and false conclusion.

For example, two people are sitting together, and someone comes in with a plate of chocolate candy. He offers both of them the candy. One person loves chocolate, the other one hates it. But, both of them are being tempted by the tempter with the chocolate. The difference is the response from both of them. One reaches out for it, the other pushes it away.

That is how it is with all sin, for all of us, including Jesus. Jesus was tempted "in all points like as we are", but He NEVER found the sin "tempting". We, on the other hand, too many times, find the sin tempting....Satan finds within our hearts an answering chord. He never found any answering chord for sin in the heart of Jesus, nothing ever responded to his temptations.

Quote:
Temptations from without find an answering chord within the heart, and the feet turn imperceptibly toward evil. As the sacrifice in our behalf was complete, so our restoration from the defilement of sin is to be complete. There is no act of wickedness that the law will excuse; there is no unrighteousness that will escape its condemnation. The life of Christ was a perfect fulfillment of every precept of the law. He said; "I have kept my Father's commandments." John 15:10. His life is our standard of obedience and service. {Mar 91.2}
Today Satan presents the same temptations that he presented to Christ, offering us the kingdoms of the world in return for our allegiance. But upon him who looks to Jesus as the author and finisher of his faith, Satan's temptations have no power. He cannot cause to sin the one who will accept by faith the virtues of Him who was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. {Mar 91.3}


So, when we are told that Jesus was "tempted in all points", it doesn't mean there was ANYTHING in Him that pulled toward the temptation...it just means that Satan hit Him on every topic from every angle that he could, and still,

Quote:
The time had come for Satan’s last attempt to overcome Christ. But Christ declared, He hath nothing in Me, no sin that brings Me in his power. He can find nothing in Me that responds to his satanic suggestions. . . . {CTr 260.4}


This is the point we all can amd must come to... We will not be safe to save until we reach the point that Satan finds in us no answering chord for his temptations...

Sadly, many, instead of admitting that they are not right spiritually, because they still find sin alluring...they try to lower the standard and say that "Jesus' inclinations were 'tending toward the negative' (Priebe, Paulson and many others), so if His inclinations were tending toward the negative, they can feel pretty good about their own inclinations that are still tending towards the negative....but it is all a deception! Jesus never had inclinations that were "tending toward the negative"... I have to say it again, that is just plain blasphemy.


this is so good!! it states how i feel about this so much better than i can. the fact that Jesus was tempted is not at issue. dwelling on a low view of Him can not raise us any higher than that view. ellen white, and the bible ever dwelt on the perfection of Christ, and that is where our thoughts also need to be.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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