S: Anyone defending the justice of eternal burning has bitterness and hatred in their hearts. They have created God in their image. Could the same be said about how we view the suffering of the lost in the end?

MM: If a person believes God will punish resurrected sinners at the end of time with hell-fire, in duration and in proportion to their sinfulness, would that be an indication that they have hatred and bitterness in their hearts, and that their grasp of God's justice is distorted as a result? Is the lake of fire actually a nicer death, a more humane death?

Mark
9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

EW 294
Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together. I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, "The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon." {EW 294.1}

Satan and his angels suffered long. Satan bore not only the weight and punishment of his own sins, but also of the sins of the redeemed host, which had been placed upon him; and he must also suffer for the ruin of souls which he had caused. Then I saw that Satan and all the wicked host were consumed, and the justice of God was satisfied; and all the angelic host, and all the redeemed saints, with a loud voice said, "Amen!" {EW 294.2}

I prefer God not resurrect the wicked at all. I need no revenge! I don't want to see my loved ones or my enemies who never accepted Christ suffer one minute longer. Does that make me more merciful than God?

"Vengeance is Mine," says the Lord.

MM, how would you feel if God didn't desire to punish anyone, but only told us that because of the hardness of our hearts? Would you still think of Him as just?

scott

Happy New Year to all.

Thanks for all of your comments to my question.

But, if there is pain and suffering in hell, would it not affect our choice between serving God or the flesh?

My opinion, in choosing between to serve the flesh or God, there must be nothing in between. If you choose God, you will live eternally; if you choose the flesh, you will die. Period!! Just die! Nothing to be added at all, i.e.: pain, suffering in hell. Some will suffer a short time, some will suffer a long time. This is not fair, and so many will be confuse between serving God and avoiding dying in hell painfully.

To die or to live must be a pure choice without any glimpse or idea of torture, suffer and pain in hell. This would show people who really love God from their heart and want to live for Him.

Imagine, many would love to serve the flesh if they know and sure that dying in hell is a nice and instant death, you feel nothing at all, in 1/1000 second. This will really short out those who loves the flesh and those who loves God.

If this is really the case, why then Jesus or EGW said about prolonging pain and suffering in hell prior to death? Is this a tactic to attract people to not choosing death, not choosing the flesh?

WDYT?

In His love

James S

The underline portion of this passage just jumped in front of me. Is this a clue to what will happen in the destruction of the wicked? Is it in harmony with Ez 28:18 when God talks about the destruction of Lucifer?

I certainly think Satan and his angels with greater sin and different makeup than man or flesh will take a different degree of time, but overall it seems to be a quick matter for flesh or the wicked. Besides, who are we to question God, do we know better how to eradicate sin, are we more knowing than God, is our love greater than what God has, I would think not....

im not sure how the "lake of fire" will work out. we may play the guessing game til heaven and still not know. but i think the bolded part of your statement is a very good point.

i dont think this is a fair judgment, nor do i think that it is conducive to getting someone to see a different point of view. if someone has been taught something and it is so ingrained in their mind then it will take time for the possiblity of a different view being true to take root and grow.

something i forget on a much too regular basis.

to test that, just ask God to cleanse you from all tradition and error and see how much pops up. i was amazed when i did it!!

This isn't clear to me. What are you wishing to say?

Here's what I wrote:



You left out the part that says, "I don't believe ..." which might convey a different idea than intended to the part you quoted.

oh!! i am so sorry!! i had to study the two quotes before i realized that in condensing your quote i made it look like something you did not say!



i thought that was a very good point to consider. God would have to keep the wicked alive in order for it take time to burn them up!! i hadnt realized that before and maybe others hadnt either.

again, i do apologize tom.

Good question, James. It helps me to first acknowledge the facts and then I can begin to wrap my mind around them. It also helps me to know God is good and that whatever He does is the outgrowth of His goodness.

I agree that it makes more sense from our perspective of law and justice to simply leave the wicked in the grave and not to resurrect them. However, it makes sense to God to resurrect them therefore I acknowledge that our perspective is wrong. I cannot explain it, but I accept it on the basis God is good and whatever He does is the byproduct of His goodness. The same thing applies to the execution of justice and judgment and the final demise of the wicked in the lake of fire.

It makes sense to the angels, too. Nevertheless, such things are indeed "strange acts" for such a good and loving and merciful Lord and Savior. Listen, though, as the angels witness and react to the punishment of the wicked during the seven last plagues, which will be considered the worst thing to ever happen to sinners:

Revelation
16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.

Revelation
18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her.