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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108096
02/10/09 12:05 AM
02/10/09 12:05 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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James White used to say that there will be two lakes of fire - one before the millennium and one after it. This is because the earth will be destroyed by fire twice - once at Christ's coming and again after the judgment.
"In the day of His coming, the last great trumpet is heard, and there is a terrible shaking of earth and heaven. The whole earth, from the loftiest mountains to the deepest mines, will hear. Everything will be penetrated by fire. The tainted atmosphere will be cleansed by fire. The fire having fulfilled its mission, the dead that have been laid away in the grave will come forth--some to the resurrection of life, to be caught up to meet their Lord in the air, and some to behold the coming of Him whom they have despised and whom they now recognize as the Judge of all the earth. All the righteous are untouched by the flames. They can walk through the fire, as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walked in the midst of the furnace heated seven times hotter than it was wont to be heated. The Hebrew worthies could not be consumed, because the form of the fourth, the Son of God, was with them. So in the day of the coming of the Lord, smoke and flame will be powerless to harm the righteous." {UL 261.4,5}
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108098
02/10/09 12:26 AM
02/10/09 12:26 AM
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SDA Active Member 2024
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
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Teresaq, thank you for posting those quotes. I take it you believe they prove a "lake of fire" will be formed before the Millennium and that the beast and the false prophet will be cast alive into it by Jesus when He returns. I also take it you do not believe they (the beast and the false prophet) are people. What do you think they are? Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic.
When do you think the following "lake of fire" will be formed? And, do you think it is different than the "lake of fire" you believe will be formed before the Millennium?
"Every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire." "The indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He hath utterly destroyed them, He hath delivered them to the slaughter." "Upon the wicked He shall rain quick burning coals, fire and brimstone and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup." Isaiah 9:5; 34:2; Psalm 11:6, margin. Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass--a vast, seething lake of fire. It is the time of the judgment and perdition of ungodly men--"the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion." Isaiah 34:8. {GC 672.2} i can only go by what the bible and sop says, coming to my own conclusions by disregarding those i put up does not seem wise to me. i also was under the impression that all three were thrown into the lake of fire at the end of the millenium til those verses hit home. then i had to rethink my conclusions. it all works out if we give up our previous conclusions and let the Holy Spirit deepen our understanding. those verses, some if not all, you quote at in your last paragraph ellen white applies to both the second and third coming. put the two chapters together regarding the second and third comings and see the similarities. are the beast and false prophet people or are they concepts/powers? as for when the ""lake of fire" will be formed, it seems to be formed at the third coming, but yet there will be fire at the second coming also. the fire at the second coming isnt the cleansing fire of the 7th millenium. but we can
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Rosangela]
#108134
02/10/09 08:58 PM
02/10/09 08:58 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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James White used to say that there will be two lakes of fire - one before the millennium and one after it. This is because the earth will be destroyed by fire twice - once at Christ's coming and again after the judgment.
"In the day of His coming, the last great trumpet is heard, and there is a terrible shaking of earth and heaven. The whole earth, from the loftiest mountains to the deepest mines, will hear. Everything will be penetrated by fire. The tainted atmosphere will be cleansed by fire. The fire having fulfilled its mission, the dead that have been laid away in the grave will come forth--some to the resurrection of life, to be caught up to meet their Lord in the air, and some to behold the coming of Him whom they have despised and whom they now recognize as the Judge of all the earth. All the righteous are untouched by the flames. They can walk through the fire, as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walked in the midst of the furnace heated seven times hotter than it was wont to be heated. The Hebrew worthies could not be consumed, because the form of the fourth, the Son of God, was with them. So in the day of the coming of the Lord, smoke and flame will be powerless to harm the righteous." {UL 261.4,5} Nice quote. Do you know of any quotes where Ellen refers to fires at the second advent as a "lake of fire"?
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: teresaq]
#108135
02/10/09 09:08 PM
02/10/09 09:08 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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i can only go by what the bible and sop says, coming to my own conclusions by disregarding those i put up does not seem wise to me. I hope I didn't say something that gave you the impression I think you are disregarding the Bible or the SOP. i also was under the impression that all three were thrown into the lake of fire at the end of the millenium til those verses hit home. then i had to rethink my conclusions. it all works out if we give up our previous conclusions and let the Holy Spirit deepen our understanding. I agree we should let the Holy Spirit guide us into an understanding of truth. those verses, some if not all, you quote at in your last paragraph ellen white applies to both the second and third coming. put the two chapters together regarding the second and third comings and see the similarities. Okay. are the beast and false prophet people or are they concepts/powers? I believe they symbolize the people who will use the power of church and state to enforce Sunday legislation. What has the Holy Spirit led you to believe in your studies? as for when the ""lake of fire" will be formed, it seems to be formed at the third coming, but yet there will be fire at the second coming also. the fire at the second coming isnt the cleansing fire of the 7th millenium. Thank you for sharing this insight. What do you mean?
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108136
02/10/09 09:20 PM
02/10/09 09:20 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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"Every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire." "The indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He hath utterly destroyed them, He hath delivered them to the slaughter." "Upon the wicked He shall rain quick burning coals, fire and brimstone and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup." Isaiah 9:5; 34:2; Psalm 11:6, margin. Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass--a vast, seething lake of fire. It is the time of the judgment and perdition of ungodly men--"the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion." Isaiah 34:8. {GC 672.2} those verses, some if not all, you quote at in your last paragraph ellen white applies to both the second and third coming. put the two chapters together regarding the second and third comings and see the similarities. I did as you suggested. I searched my EGW database and I discovered she does indeed apply 2 Peter 3:10 to both the second and third coming of Christ. However, she applied the other verses only to the third coming of Christ.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108142
02/10/09 10:57 PM
02/10/09 10:57 PM
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Like I said before, I'm a very paranoid person because of my revelations but I do have personal insights that I would like to share such as the false prophet and the beast burning for the 1,000yrs before satan is released and the devil that deceived them(another false prophet) is cast into the lake of fire according to scripture. As for what the beast and the false prophet are, from my understanding, the beast is from the bottomless pit and the false prophet is one of the four angels released from the river Euphrates, including the devil that decieved them after the 1,000yrs. My understanding might not be Ellen W hites' but are we searching for truth or not.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108163
02/11/09 04:25 AM
02/11/09 04:25 AM
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SDA Active Member 2024
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
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"Every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire." "The indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He hath utterly destroyed them, He hath delivered them to the slaughter." "Upon the wicked He shall rain quick burning coals, fire and brimstone and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup." Isaiah 9:5; 34:2; Psalm 11:6, margin. Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass--a vast, seething lake of fire. It is the time of the judgment and perdition of ungodly men--"the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion." Isaiah 34:8. {GC 672.2} those verses, some if not all, you quote at in your last paragraph ellen white applies to both the second and third coming. put the two chapters together regarding the second and third comings and see the similarities. I did as you suggested. I searched my EGW database and I discovered she does indeed apply 2 Peter 3:10 to both the second and third coming of Christ. However, she applied the other verses only to the third coming of Christ. im sorry. i should have reviewed my chart before stating the verses were the same. in reviewing it just now it was the events that were very similar. not the verses. 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. according to these verses there will be a lake of fire but not the cleansing lake of fire. which makes sense, i believe. burning is burning. forgive me please for not being more considerate in my previous post(s). i just mean to say if our understanding is not matching up with the scripture then we probably need to rethink our understanding of the symbols presented. my conclusion is that earthly power-as in nations-and sunday observance will be destroyed not to be resurrected. someone else may have a better way of expressing the thought.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: precepts]
#108165
02/11/09 04:28 AM
02/11/09 04:28 AM
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SDA Active Member 2024
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
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Like I said before, I'm a very paranoid person because of my revelations but I do have personal insights that I would like to share such as the false prophet and the beast burning for the 1,000yrs before satan is released and the devil that deceived them(another false prophet) is cast into the lake of fire according to scripture. As for what the beast and the false prophet are, from my understanding, the beast is from the bottomless pit and the false prophet is one of the four angels released from the river Euphrates, including the devil that decieved them after the 1,000yrs. My understanding might not be Ellen W hites' but are we searching for truth or not. yes, we are searching for truth. but one prophet does not cancel out a previous prophet. if your "revelations" are not matching up with the prophets before you, then my brother/sister you need to rethink the source of those revelations. wouldnt you think so? God doesnt contradict Himself does He?
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: teresaq]
#108188
02/11/09 05:07 PM
02/11/09 05:07 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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my conclusion is that earthly power-as in nations-and sunday observance will be destroyed not to be resurrected. someone else may have a better way of expressing the thought. Which is which? That is, which symbol symbolizes "earthly power" and which one symbolizes "sunday observance"? I'm referring to the beast and the false prophet.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108189
02/11/09 05:08 PM
02/11/09 05:08 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Precepts, I have no idea what you mean. Please explain your comments above. Thank you.
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