The following inspired this topic:



Is it true that the only place where God has clearly explained why Jesus Christ had to die in the SOP? (Spirit of Prophecy)

1. Does Scripture clearly explain why Jesus had to die? No.

2. Is the SOP the only inspired place where it is clearly explained? Yes.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I've never heard this idea before. I'm curious if anyone else here agrees with this.

I think the SOP explains the subject in more detail than the Bible (the same happens with every other doctrine), but this subject will be perfectly understood only in heaven.

Do you think it's true that the Scripture does not explain clearly why Jesus had to die? Wouldn't the corollary to this idea be that nobody knew until Sister White, and nobody knows now except for SDA's?

In Isaiah 53 The Messiah takes the punishment for US to whom "the stroke was due" -- substitutionary atoning sacrifice.

In Col 2:14 "our certificate of DEBT was nailed to the cross" he is paying our "ticket" -- the price WE owe. Substitutionary atoning sacrifice.

In Heb 2:9 He tastes the sufferings of death for every man. The 2nd death torment owed in the lake of fire.

In 1John 2:2 he is our "Atoning Sacrifice" and this is done "for OUR SINS and not for our SINS only but for the SINS of the Whole World".

In Lev 16 we see the atoning sacrifice in the form of the Lord's Goat - the sin offering.

I think the Bible is very clear on why Christ died and what payment -- what debt He paid for us.

in Christ,

Bob

I have to agree with you on that - I never heard that the SOP is the only place this is spelled out. There is a large amount of non-SDA denominations that also know that Christ died a substitutionary atoning sacrifice -- paying our debt of sin. I have to think they got that from someplace besides the SOP.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob, I agree with you regarding the penal substitutionary nature of Jesus' death. However, the scriptures you quoted do not "clearly" prove it. Tom cites the same passages to disprove the penal substitutionary nature of Jesus' death.

A similar apparent discrepancy exists in Ellen White's writings, which we've been through in great detail, so there's no need to rehash these things here. I'm just making the point that because one person interprets writings one way and another interprets them another does not mean the writer is not being clear.

To me its rather astounding to suggest that Jesus Christ did not clearly teach the meaning of His death.

You didn't comment on my corollaries.

1.Nobody knew until Sister White why Jesus Christ had to die.
2.Nobody knows now except for SDA's.

It seems these points would follow from the idea that nobody except for Sister White clearly explained the reason for Christ's death. Actually, you said no inspired person did so, so perhaps you would say that there was some non-inspired person before Ellen White who explained it clearly, so others could have gotten it from that. But they wouldn't be able to explain it from Scripture. Is this correct?

Is the idea that "all those non-SDA denominations just so happened to come to the same conclusion as Ellen White"???

In any case - I would argue that the texts above are pretty clear.

Of course when we take texts like Ex 20:8-11 to non-SDAs they will say that the Sabbath is not clear or is up for interpretation -- so I am not arguing that just because a point is seen as "clear" in the bible -- that everyone agrees to that evaluation of it.

in Christ,

Bob