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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Bobryan]
#108575
02/18/09 03:58 PM
02/18/09 03:58 PM
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Bob's Originally Posted By: precepts
Bob's
Quote:
It would be better if your revelation was not conflicted with scripture and with other prophets whose writings have been shown to be in harmony with scripture.
You mean like the two different lakes of fires?
Bob's
Quote:
In this particular case - the beast is referenced as early as Rev 13 and shown to be the Papacy (false religion in various forms since the time of Babylon actually). So this is an "organization" not an individual person.
Regardless of Revelation 13:18, Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
In Rev 13 it is "the number of his name" and the beast is an organiation composed of all component parts of the 4-beast sequence we see in Dan 7 (see all 4 beasts of Dan 7 being referenced in Rev 13:1-2). This is indeed an organization not a single person. If it's not a man, why does the verse use the pronoun he? Stop ignoring and interpreting what doesn't need to be interpreted. Rev 17:7-18 clearly states that the beast is the 8th king with the 7 kings of the 7 mountains of Rome(the woman). The beast is the 8th king, not kingdom, king. The 10 horns are kings, not kingdoms, period. Rome was founded and fenced in on 7 of 10 mountains by 7 pre-Ceasar kings. Eventhough we know that Rome's emperors lasted for centuries, the 11th was the last Roman emperor by blood or birth. The first 7 were Julius Ceasar's dynasty, and the three plucked up(8th-10th) were Flavians. Check the history, it's a fact. Bob's 1. There is no text in all of scripture that says that "angels laid with women"
2. There is Matt 22 where Christ tells us that Agnels were not created with the ability even to have family relations with each other - let alone with other species!
3. The text you might be straining this from is in Gen 6:1-3 where we are told that the "sons of God went into the daughters of men" referring to the descendants of Abel vs the descendants of Cain. (As even R.C Sproul points out). There are numerous texts about the saints being called "the sons of God" and the gospel promise of accepting Christ that "you may be called the sons of God". If that is true, how then is Christ, the son of man, the first begotten son of God? Bob's 4. There is nothing whatever showing any of the 4 angels in Rev 7 to be evil. Didn't answer the question of why were they bound? Bob's 5. There is no text at all showing that the winds of strife in Rev 7 are released at the same time that the beast came out of the sea in Rev 13 either during the dark ages or when the deadly wound was healed. The 5th and 6th angel trumps aren't close enough. The vision, the seven seal, seven trumps begin to sound? Bob's It works better if you show what part of the text you think is making your point rather than making accusations against this entire web site.
Here is the actual text - in Rev 17.
8 "" The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. It was a silly question. You want me to believe that that guy never read Rev 17? That's exacly the run around I'm talking about. Bob's In Rev 13 the beast that gives the "number of his name" comes up out of the sea. In Rev 17 the beast only comes out of the abyss after having come up out of the sea and then suffering his deadly wound. I don't understand, what's your point? It is unclear to me how this related to the beast or what point you are trying to make with Matt 15.
Since this thread is about the reality of the Lake of Fire -- I don't see how Matt 15 connects your point with the topic at hand.
in Christ,
Bob How was his quote of me fulfilling scripture by misinterpreting related to the topic?
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: precepts]
#108616
02/19/09 03:28 AM
02/19/09 03:28 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2015
Senior Member
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 793
Georgia, USA
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Originally Posted By: precepts
Bob's
Quote:
It would be better if your revelation was not conflicted with scripture and with other prophets whose writings have been shown to be in harmony with scripture.
You mean like the two different lakes of fires?
Bob's
Quote:
In this particular case - the beast is referenced as early as Rev 13 and shown to be the Papacy (false religion in various forms since the time of Babylon actually). So this is an "organization" not an individual person.
"Context is everything" when it comes to exegesis. In this case it is the same book, same author and same beast in Rev 13 as in Rev 17. so we pay attention "to the details" without trying to isolate chapter 17 to it's own island. Precept
Regardless of Revelation 13:18, Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Indeed the "name/title of the man" is numbered 13:17 "He provides that no one is able to buy or sell, except the one who has the mark, either the NAME of the beast or the NUMBER of HIS NAME" The Empire ruling at the time John writes is Rome. Their language is Latin. It was common to assign numbers to names since certain Latin letters were used for both letters and numbers. This is the easy part. Hence - the title "Vicarius Filii dei" which is also included in the "Donation of Constantine" as a title for the Pope - is certainly applicable. A single man - stands at the head of that organization -- as it's "Pope".
Stop ignoring and interpreting what doesn't need to be interpreted.
What part of "apocalyptic literature" means "do not interpret"?
Rev 17:7-18 clearly states that the beast is the 8th king with the 7 kings of the 7 mountains of Rome(the woman).
Dan 7:24 "the ten horns are ten kings" -- yet we all know that Rome did not split into ten kings -- but rather each of the splinter groups had a succession of rulers. Lesson already learned - before John writes his first word. John relies on the fact that his readers already have access to the lessons of the book of Daniel. precept upon precept. Line upon line. But here again we have "your topic" instead of the OP Subject. in Christ, Bob
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Bobryan]
#108617
02/19/09 03:32 AM
02/19/09 03:32 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2015
Senior Member
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 793
Georgia, USA
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Bob said
4. There is nothing whatever showing any of the 4 angels in Rev 7 to be evil.
Precept
Didn't answer the question of why were they bound?
The text of Rev 7 says that they are commanded to hold the four winds of strife until the saints of God are sealed. "I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth...until we have sealed the bond-servants..." Rev 7:1. in Christ, Bob
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Bobryan]
#108629
02/19/09 02:48 PM
02/19/09 02:48 PM
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ADMIN HAT ON!
Please focus on the topic of this thread and create new threads on discussions not related to this topic.
Thank you.
ADMIN HAT OFF
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: teresaq]
#108648
02/19/09 08:19 PM
02/19/09 08:19 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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I feel the same way about it. Precepts comments motivate me to bug out.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108662
02/19/09 10:30 PM
02/19/09 10:30 PM
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ADMIN HAT ON!
I think it is time to give this topic a time out.
ADMIN HAT OFF!
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Daryl]
#108918
02/24/09 11:11 PM
02/24/09 11:11 PM
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ADMIN HAT ON!
Time out ended.
I have now re-opened this topic for on topic discussion only.
ADMIN HAT OFF!
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Daryl]
#109457
03/06/09 05:32 AM
03/06/09 05:32 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Yes, it became OOT (out of topic)
Back again, I really preffer to think of hell as a nice death, instant death. Anyway, eternal death is the point, right? So, why all those pain and suffering? Who need it?
I want to think of a God whose picture is unmarred with an idea that he support sinner's life in hell just to let them endure such pain and suffering for thier sins.
The point is death aternal, so, be dead instantly.
The option os to live eternally, then you could choose with the same weight, to live or to die, without being frightenned by a tormenting hell that would give such pain and suffering for may hours, days or years? Wow, what an idea?
And I really don't undertand how can the world (non SDA's) think and believe and accpet that there is an eternal hell that would punish sinner forever and ever...
In His love
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: James Saptenno]
#109460
03/06/09 12:13 PM
03/06/09 12:13 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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James,
If the point was just to stay dead for ever, there would be no need for the person to be resurrected just to die again.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Rosangela]
#109484
03/06/09 07:26 PM
03/06/09 07:26 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The option os to live eternally, then you could choose with the same weight, to live or to die, without being frightenned by a tormenting hell that would give such pain and suffering for may hours, days or years? Wow, what an idea? This is difficult to understand. I think it's saying we should be able to choose to live or die without being frightened by a tormenting hell that would give excruciating pain and suffering caused by a literal fire being applied to those who choose to reject God. Assuming this is the case, I agree.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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