There another one. He says, "I need a huge Christ so that He can save me from the mess that I am, and recreate me into one like Him.

Thank you, Aaron, for answering my questions. You've given me a lot to think about. I have a few other questions; I hope you don't mind.

1. Where in the Bible does it say we cannot completely cease sinning in this lifetime?

2. If ceasing sinning is impossible, why is it impossible? What is it about us that makes it impossible for Jesus to empower us to cease sinning?

Well off hand Jeremiah 13:23 comes to mind "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard this spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil?" Or Romans 3:9 tells us all are under sin. Romans 7:17 refers to the sin which indwells us.

I believe the biblical view of sin is not just acts but a state. We are born in the sinful flesh. I believe Christ can help us overcome sins but never will we reach a state of sinlessness like LGT would require. Now I think the sins that concern God are the high handed defiant ones that separate us from him. For example, I might always feel anger if someone cuts me off on the road but through the power of God I won’t chase them down and flip them off. The anger comes because I have a corrupted will and I will always have that until Christ Himself comes back and changes me. Isn’t this the struggle that Paul refers too in Romans 7? Before you’re converted you don’t even try to keep the law or care that your not keeping it. Afterward you do care and hate that no matter how much you want to stop sinning you still struggle with it your whole life. In both cases you are trying your best so there is no antinomianism. The problem with thinking you can become perfect in my opinion is that it leads to frustration because it’s an impossible task. And it keeps you focused on yourself instead of on Christ.

I don’t intend to change anyones mind on this matter. I just like to show an alternate viewpoint for others that might be reading this forum. Today I was thinking about this concept of the last generation and how you always hear "the only thing we get to take to heaven with us is our character" and a thought occurred to me. What happens to the characters of the resurrected? Do they get a new character or are they stuck with the ones they happened to have had at death?

It doesn't say that we cannot completely cease sinning, but 1Jn 1:8 is worth a look.

What "state of sinlessness" do you think LGT requires?

I've had many conversations with Larry Kirkpatrick, and from what I've seen so far, the LGT requirement of sinlessness is much easier to achieve than what the Gospel offers. While the Gospel promises a transformation of nature, LGT only requires a modification of motives. The Gospel changes what you are, while LGT only changes what you choose.

BTW, I recently started a conversation with LK about LGT and sinlessness. Maybe there are subtle nuances still to be discovered.

Aaron: Now I think the sins that concern God are the high handed defiant ones that separate us from him. For example, I might always feel anger if someone cuts me off on the road but through the power of God I won’t chase them down and flip them off. The anger comes because I have a corrupted will and I will always have that until Christ Himself comes back and changes me. Isn’t this the struggle that Paul refers too in Romans 7?

MM: Excellent observations and question. Yes, this side of heaven we will always be tempted from within to be unlike Jesus, and for the very reason you gave - we have a fallen flesh nature, which wars against the Spirit dwelling within us and against the new man mind Jesus implanted within us the moment we were born again.

However, I'm not so sure that being tempted from within by our fallen flesh nature constitutes sinning. All temptations begin as unholy thoughts and feelings, right? Otherwise, how else could we be tempted? But, praise the Lord, being tempted isn't the same thing as sinning. If, when we are tempted from within, we keep our eyes of faith on Jesus, continue to fellowship with Him in spirit and in truth, we come off more than conquerors. We are not contaminated.

Staying with your example, the fact we are tempted to feel and think ungodly thoughts and feelings about the guy who cuts us off in traffic is not a sin. That is, being tempted to think and feel unlovely things about the guy is not a sin. True, the fact such thoughts and feelings well up within us is evidence we inherited a fallen flesh nature, that sin dwells with in us. Nevertheless, we are not guilty of sinning simply because our sinful flesh nature tempts us from within to be unlike Jesus.

The bad news is, we are stuck with our sinful flesh nature and its unholy clamorings until the day Jesus returns and rewards us with a sinless body and nature. Being a Christian is a battle and a march. We must fight the good fight of faith without ceasing. But the rewards are worth it - being like Jesus now and spending eternity with Him later on.

"The Christian will feel the promptings of sin, but he will maintain a constant warfare against it." Here is the context of this insight:

i was going to start a topic posting thoughts like these on hopefully a regular basis, then i saw this one. if you dont think it fits with your topic, daryl, i wont mind if you move it.

In the court a fire had been kindled; for it was the coldest hour of the night, being just before the dawn. A company drew about the fire, and Peter presumptuously took his place with them. He did not wish to be recognized as a disciple of Jesus. By mingling carelessly with the crowd, he hoped to be taken for one of those who had brought Jesus to the hall. {DA 710.4}
But as the light flashed upon Peter's face, the woman who kept the door cast a searching glance upon him. She had noticed that he came in with John, she marked the look of dejection on his face, and thought that he might be a disciple of Jesus. She was one of the servants of Caiaphas' household, and was curious to know. She said to Peter, "Art not thou also one of this Man's disciples?" Peter was startled and confused; the eyes of the company instantly fastened upon him. He pretended not to understand her; but she was persistent, and said to those around her that this man was with Jesus. Peter felt compelled to answer, and said angrily, "Woman, I know Him not." This was the first denial, and immediately the cock crew. O Peter, so soon ashamed of thy Master! so soon to deny thy Lord! {DA 710.5}
The disciple John, upon entering the judgment hall, did not try to conceal the fact that he was a follower of Jesus. He did not mingle with the rough company who were reviling his Master. He was not questioned, for he did not assume a false character, and thus lay himself liable to suspicion. He sought a retired corner secure from the notice of the mob, but as near Jesus as it was possible for him to be. Here he could see and hear all that took place at the trial of his Lord. {DA 711.1}
Peter had not designed that his real character should be known. In assuming an air of indifference he had placed himself on the enemy's ground, and he became an easy prey to temptation. If he had been called to fight for his Master, he would have been a courageous soldier; but when the finger of scorn was pointed at him, he proved himself a coward. Many who do not shrink from active warfare for their Lord are driven by ridicule to deny their faith. By associating with those whom they should avoid, they place themselves in the way of temptation. They invite the enemy to tempt them, and are led to say and do that of which under other circumstances they would never have been guilty. The disciple of Christ who in our day disguises his faith through dread of suffering or reproach denies his Lord as really as did Peter in the judgment hall. {DA 712.1}
Peter tried to show no interest in the trial of his Master, but his heart was wrung with sorrow as he heard the cruel taunts, and saw the abuse He was suffering. More than this, he was surprised and angry that Jesus should humiliate Himself and His followers by submitting to such treatment. In order to conceal his true feelings, he endeavored to join with the persecutors of Jesus in their untimely jests. But his appearance was unnatural. He was acting a lie, and while seeking to talk unconcernedly he could not restrain expressions of indignation at the abuse heaped upon his Master. {DA 712.2}
Attention was called to him the second time, and he was again charged with being a follower of Jesus. He now declared with an oath, "I do not know the Man." Still another opportunity was given him. An hour had passed, when one of the servants of the high priest, being a near kinsman of the man whose ear Peter had cut off, asked him, "Did not I see thee in the garden with Him?" "Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilean, and thy speech agreeth thereto." At this Peter flew into a rage. The disciples of Jesus were noted for the purity of their language, and in order fully to deceive his questioners, and justify his assumed character, Peter now denied his Master with cursing and swearing. Again the cock crew. Peter heard it then, and he remembered the words of Jesus, "Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny Me thrice." Mark 14:30. {DA 712.3}
While the degrading oaths were fresh upon Peter's lips, and the shrill crowing of the cock was still ringing in his ears, the Saviour turned from the frowning judges, and looked full upon His poor disciple. At the same time Peter's eyes were drawn to his Master. In that gentle countenance he read deep pity and sorrow, but there was no anger there. {DA 712.4}
The sight of that pale, suffering face, those quivering lips, that look of compassion and forgiveness, pierced his heart like an arrow. Conscience was aroused. Memory was active. Peter called to mind his promise of a few short hours before that he would go with his Lord to prison and to death. He remembered his grief when the Saviour told him in the upper chamber that he would deny his Lord thrice that same night. Peter had just declared that he knew not Jesus, but he now realized with bitter grief how well his Lord knew him, and how accurately He had read his heart, the falseness of which was unknown even to himself. {DA 713.1}
A tide of memories rushed over him. The Saviour's tender mercy, His kindness and long-suffering, His gentleness and patience toward His erring disciples,--all was remembered. He recalled the caution, "Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not." Luke 22:31, 32. He reflected with horror upon his own ingratitude, his falsehood, his perjury. Once more he looked at his Master, and saw a sacrilegious hand raised to smite Him in the face. Unable longer to endure the scene, he rushed, heartbroken, from the hall. {DA 713.2}
He pressed on in solitude and darkness, he knew not and cared not whither. At last he found himself in Gethsemane. The scene of a few hours before came vividly to his mind. The suffering face of his Lord, stained with bloody sweat and convulsed with anguish, rose before him. He remembered with bitter remorse that Jesus had wept and agonized in prayer alone, while those who should have united with Him in that trying hour were sleeping. He remembered His solemn charge, "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation." Matthew 26:41. He witnessed again the scene in the judgment hall. It was torture to his bleeding heart to know that he had added the heaviest burden to the Saviour's humiliation and grief. On the very spot where Jesus had poured out His soul in agony to His Father, Peter fell upon his face, and wished that he might die. {DA 713.3}

the above post was the response of peter to Christs look of love and pity.

the following is the response of judas to that very same look.

Judas did not, however, believe that Christ would permit Himself to be arrested. In betraying Him, it was his purpose to teach Him a lesson. He intended to play a part that would make the Saviour careful thenceforth to treat him with due respect. But Judas knew not that he was giving Christ up to death. How often, as the Saviour taught in parables, the scribes and Pharisees had been carried away with His striking illustrations! How often they had pronounced judgment against themselves! Often when the truth was brought home to their hearts, they had been filled with rage, and had taken up stones to cast at Him; but again and again He had made His escape. Since He had escaped so many snares, thought Judas, He certainly would not now allow Himself to be taken. {DA 720.5}

Judas decided to put the matter to the test. If Jesus really was the Messiah, the people, for whom He had done so much, would rally about Him, and would proclaim Him king. This would forever settle many minds that were now in uncertainty. Judas would have the credit of having placed the king on David's throne. And this act would secure to him the first position, next to Christ, in the new kingdom. {DA 721.1}

The false disciple acted his part in betraying Jesus. In the garden, when he said to the leaders of the mob, "Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is He: hold Him fast" (Matthew 26:48), he fully believed that Christ would escape out of their hands. Then if they should blame him, he could say, Did I not tell you to hold Him fast? {DA 721.2}

Judas beheld the captors of Christ, acting upon his words, bind Him firmly. In amazement he saw that the Saviour suffered Himself to be led away. Anxiously he followed Him from the garden to the trial before the Jewish rulers. At every movement he looked for Him to surprise His enemies, by appearing before them as the Son of God, and setting at nought all their plots and power. But as hour after hour went by, and Jesus submitted to all the abuse heaped upon Him, a terrible fear came to the traitor that he had sold his Master to His death. {DA 721.3}

As the trial drew to a close, Judas could endure the torture of his guilty conscience no longer. Suddenly a hoarse voice rang through the hall, sending a thrill of terror to all hearts: He is innocent; spare Him, O Caiaphas! {DA 721.4}

The tall form of Judas was now seen pressing through the startled throng. His face was pale and haggard, and great drops of sweat stood on his forehead. Rushing to the throne of judgment, he threw down before the high priest the pieces of silver that had been the price of his Lord's betrayal. Eagerly grasping the robe of Caiaphas, he implored him to release Jesus, declaring that He had done nothing worthy of death. Caiaphas angrily shook him off, but was confused, and knew not what to say. The perfidy of the priests was revealed. It was evident that they had bribed the disciple to betray his Master. {DA 721.5}

"I have sinned," again cried Judas, "in that I have betrayed the innocent blood." But the high priest, regaining his self-possession, answered with scorn, "What is that to us? see thou to that." Matthew 27:4. The priests had been willing to make Judas their tool; but they despised his baseness. When he turned to them with confession, they spurned him. {DA 722.1}

Judas now cast himself at the feet of Jesus, acknowledging Him to be the Son of God, and entreating Him to deliver Himself. The Saviour did not reproach His betrayer. He knew that Judas did not repent; his confession was forced from his guilty soul by an awful sense of condemnation and a looking for of judgment, but he felt no deep, heartbreaking grief that he had betrayed the spotless Son of God, and denied the Holy One of Israel. Yet Jesus spoke no word of condemnation. He looked pityingly upon Judas, and said, For this hour came I into the world. {DA 722.2}

A murmur of surprise ran through the assembly. With amazement they beheld the forbearance of Christ toward His betrayer. Again there swept over them the conviction that this Man was more than mortal. But if He was the Son of God, they questioned, why did He not free Himself from His bonds and triumph over His accusers? {DA 722.3}

Judas saw that his entreaties were in vain, and he rushed from the hall exclaiming, It is too late! It is too late! He felt that he could not live to see Jesus crucified, and in despair went out and hanged himself. {DA 722.4}