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Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Mountain Man] #117492
08/11/09 01:46 PM
08/11/09 01:46 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
We will indeed. May it not delay beyond whats necessary for all who will to turn to God as is His will.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Mountain Man] #117494
08/11/09 01:47 PM
08/11/09 01:47 PM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: MM
Can we divorce the mission and message of the Remnant Church from salvation? I am using the word "salvation" in the same sense Jesus did - "Salvation is of the Jews". In other words, isn't it true that Jesus raised up the SDA Church to preach and proclaim the 3AMs? Who else did He commission to do it? And, doesn't the salvation of souls depend on their reception or rejection of the 3AMs during the final hours earth's history? Ellen White wrote:

Hi MM, what you said here made me think. Ellen White says history is bound to happen again. Did the Church of Jesus time, which were a remnant of Judah, proclame salvation????? A big No to that question. It was, 40 lay people that responded to Jesus, that got filled with the early rain, and proclaim the salvation to the Jews first, but then it was prociaimed to the gentiles.

Now let's make a parallele to Christ 1st coming to Christ 2nd Coming. Can we say that our Church, a very Laodicean minded Church, can equal the Church at Jesus 1st coming. I think we are very similar. So do you see in Revelation 3 where it state that the Laodicean Church repented? Do you see anywhere in Revelation that it's going to be that Church that's going to finish the work?

It was not the organized Church of the Jews that proclaimed salvation to the world, it was a little Layic group that did the work. I believe history will repeat itself.


Blessings
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Elle] #117495
08/11/09 01:57 PM
08/11/09 01:57 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Posts: 3,965
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To add to what Elle wrote, we may further notice that Jesus disciples came from all walks of life in the land, and would it be stating to much to conclude that at least one of them was a samaritan woman and another a roman officer?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: teresaq] #117498
08/11/09 03:04 PM
08/11/09 03:04 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Quote:
I haven't been following thid thread, but it seems to me the concept of the remnant has nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with a message to the world.

could you elaborate on that more. i didnt quite understand it.

It seems to me that to the SDA Church was entrusted a special message of God to the world. This is different from saying that all those who accept the message are saved. This is also different from saying that no other church at present is fulfilling Jesus' comission of preaching the gospel to the whole world.
However, at the end, when the world is divided into only two classes - those who serve God and those who oppose God - all those who serve God will be in harmony with the message entrusted to the SDA Church - the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Rosangela] #117553
08/12/09 01:20 PM
08/12/09 01:20 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Elle, in addition to what Rosangela wrote above, please consider the prophecies regarding "the shaking". The Laodicean Church (SDA) will experience a shaking. The impure and unsanctified members will leave the church and join the ranks of opposition. Then this newly refined and purified SDA Church will call people out of Babylon. The effect is a two way exodus between Laodicea and Babylon. The result will be two classes of people and two churches - 1) Those who imitate the sinless example of Jesus and keep the Sabbath, and 2) Those who imitate the sinless example of Jesus and keep Sunday.

Quote:
Chap. 12. - The Shaking

Church Membership No
Guarantee of Salvation


It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner.--ChS 41 (1893). {LDE 172.1}
Those who have had opportunities to hear and receive of the truth and who have united with the Seventh-day Adventist church, calling themselves the commandment-keeping people of God, and yet possess no more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal churches, will receive the plagues of God just as verily as the churches who oppose the law of God.--19MR 176 (1898). {LDE 172.2}

The Chaff Separated From the Wheat

Divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest.--2SM 114 (1896). {LDE 172.3}
There will be a shaking of the sieve. The chaff must in time be separated from the wheat. Because iniquity abounds, the love of many waxes cold. It is the very time when the genuine will be the strongest.--Letter 46, 1887. {LDE 173.1}
The history of the rebellion of Dathan and Abiram is being repeated, and will be repeated till the close of time. Who will be on the Lord's side? Who will be deceived, and in their turn become deceivers?--Letter 15, 1892. {LDE 173.2}
The Lord is soon to come. There must be a refining, winnowing process in every church, for there are among us wicked men who do not love the truth or honor God.--RH March 19, 1895. {LDE 173.3}
We are in the shaking time, the time when everything that can be shaken will be shaken. The Lord will not excuse those who know the truth if they do not in word and deed obey His commands.--6T 332 (1900). {LDE 173.4}

Persecution Cleanses the Church

Prosperity multiplies a mass of professors. Adversity purges them out of the church.--4T 89 (1876). {LDE 173.5}
The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The mark of the beast will be urged upon us. Those who have step by step yielded to worldly demands and conformed to worldly customs will not find it a hard matter to yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult,
174
threatened imprisonment, and death. The contest is between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. In this time the gold will be separated from the dross in the church.--5T 81 (1882). {LDE 173.6}
In the absence of the persecution there have drifted into our ranks men who appear sound and their Christianity unquestionable, but who, if persecution should arise, would go out from us.--Ev 360 (1890). {LDE 174.1}
When the law of God is made void the church will be sifted by fiery trials, and a larger proportion than we now anticipate will give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.--2SM 368 (1891). {LDE 174.2}
Superficial Believers Will Renounce the Faith

The work which the church has failed to do in a time of peace and prosperity she will have to do in a terrible crisis under most discouraging, forbidding circumstances. The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith. And at that time the superficial, conservative [ELLEN WHITE IS NOT HERE DISTINGUISHING THEOLOGICAL CONSERVATIVES FROM THEIR LIBERAL COUNTERPARTS; SHE IS DESCRIBING THOSE WHO PUT "WORLDLY CONFORMITY" FIRST AND GOD'S CAUSE SECOND.] class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work, will renounce the faith.--5T 463 (1885). {LDE 174.3}
If Satan sees that the Lord is blessing His people and preparing them to discern his delusions, he will
175
work with his master power to bring in fanaticism on the one hand and cold formalism on the other, that he may gather in a harvest of souls.--2SM 19 (1890). {LDE 174.4}
Those who have had privileges and opportunities to become intelligent in regard to the truth and yet who continue to counterwork the work God would have accomplished will be purged out, for God accepts the service of no man whose interest is divided.--Ms 64, 1898. {LDE 175.1}
As trials thicken around us, both separation and unity will be seen in our ranks. Some who are now ready to take up weapons of warfare will in times of real peril make it manifest that they have not built upon the solid rock; they will yield to temptation. Those who have had great light and precious privileges but have not improved them will, under one pretext or another, go out from us.--6T 400 (1900). {LDE 175.2}
The Straight Testimony Produces a Shaking

I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen, and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this will cause a shaking among God's people.--1T 181 (1857). {LDE 175.3}
There are those among us who will make confessions, as did Achan, too late to save themselves.
176
. . . They are not in harmony with right. They despise the straight testimony that reaches the heart, and would rejoice to see everyone silenced who gives reproof.--3T 272 (1873). {LDE 175.4}
The Lord calls for a renewal of the straight testimony borne in years past. He calls for a renewal of spiritual life. The spiritual energies of His people have long been torpid, but there is to be a resurrection from apparent death. By prayer and confession of sin we must clear the King's highway.--8T 297 (1904). {LDE 176.1}

Unjust Criticism Causes Loss of Souls

Even in our day there have been and will continue to be entire families who have once rejoiced in the truth, but who will lose faith because of calumnies and falsehoods brought to them in regard to those whom they have loved and with whom they have had sweet counsel. They opened their hearts to the sowing of tares, the tares sprang up among the wheat, they strengthened, the crop of wheat became less and less, and the precious truth lost its power to them.--TM 411 (1898). {LDE 176.2}

False Doctrines Draw Some Away

Science, so-called, and religion will be placed in opposition to each other because finite men do not comprehend the power and greatness of God. These words of Holy Writ were presented to me, "Of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things,
177
to draw away disciples after them" [Acts 20:30]. This will surely be seen among the people of God.--Ev 593 (1890). {LDE 176.3}
When the shaking comes, by the introduction of false theories, these surface readers, anchored nowhere, are like shifting sand. They slide into any position to suit the tenor of their feelings of bitterness.--TM 112 (1897). {LDE 177.1}
Not having received the love of the truth, they will be taken in the delusions of the enemy; they will give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils and will depart from the faith.--6T 401 (1900). {LDE 177.2}
The enemy will bring in false theories, such as the doctrine that there is no sanctuary. This is one of the points on which there will be a departing from the faith.--Ev 224 (1905). {LDE 177.3}

Rejection of the
Testimonies Results in Apostasy


One thing is certain: Those Seventh-day Adventists who take their stand under Satan's banner will first give up their faith in the warnings and reproofs contained in the Testimonies of God's Spirit.--3SM 84 (1903). {LDE 177.4}
The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. "Where there is no vision, the people perish" (Prov. 29:18). Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through
178
different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimony.--1SM 48 (1890). {LDE 177.5}
The enemy has made his masterly efforts to unsettle the faith of our own people in the Testimonies. . . . This is just as Satan designed it should be, and those who have been preparing the way for the people to pay no heed to the warnings and reproofs of the Testimonies of the Spirit of God will see that a tide of errors of all kinds will spring into life.--3SM 83 (1890). {LDE 178.1}
It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies. Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures, and then the downward march to perdition. When the Testimonies, which were once believed, are doubted and given up, Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this; and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open rebellion, which becomes incurable and ends in destruction.--4T 211. {LDE 178.2}

Defections Among Church Leaders

Many a star that we have admired for its brilliance will then go out in darkness.--PK 188 (c. 1914). {LDE 178.3}
Men whom He has greatly honored will, in the closing scenes of this earth's history, pattern after ancient Israel. . . . A departure from the great principles Christ has laid down in His teachings, a working out of human projects, using the Scriptures to
179
justify a wrong course of action under the perverse working of Lucifer, will confirm men in misunderstanding, and the truth that they need to keep them from wrong practices will leak out of the soul like water from a leaky vessel.--13MR 379, 381 (1904). {LDE 178.4}
Many will show that they are not one with Christ, that they are not dead to the world, that they may live with Him; and frequent will be the apostasies of men who have occupied responsible positions.--RH Sept. 11, 1888. {LDE 179.1}

Unsanctified Ministers Will Be Weeded Out

The great issue so near at hand [enforcement of Sunday laws] will weed out those whom God has not appointed and He will have a pure, true, sanctified ministry prepared for the latter rain.--3SM 385 (1886). {LDE 179.2}
Many will stand in our pulpits with the torch of false prophecy in their hands, kindled from the hellish torch of Satan. . . . {LDE 179.3}
Some will go out from among us who will bear the ark no longer. But these can not make walls to obstruct the truth; for it will go onward and upward to the end.--TM 409, 411 (1898). {LDE 179.4}
Ministers and doctors may depart from the faith, as the Word declares they will, and as the messages that God has given His servant declare they will.--7MR 192 (1906). {LDE 179.5}

The Church May Appear as About to Fall

The shaking of God blows away multitudes like dry leaves.--4T 89 (1876). {LDE 180.1}
Chaff like a cloud will be borne away on the wind, even from places where we see only floors of rich wheat.--5T 81 (1882). {LDE 180.2}
Soon God's people will be tested by fiery trials, and the great proportion of those who now appear to be genuine and true will prove to be base metal. . . . {LDE 180.3}
When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason.--5T 136 (1882). {LDE 180.4}
The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place.--2SM 380 (1886). {LDE 180.5}
As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have
181
not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position and join the ranks of the opposition.--GC 608 (1911). {LDE 180.6}

God's Faithful Will Be Revealed

The Lord has faithful servants who in the shaking, testing time will be disclosed to view. There are precious ones now hidden who have not bowed the knee to Baal. They have not had the light which has been shining in a concentrated blaze upon you. But it may be under a rough and uninviting exterior the pure brightness of a genuine Christian character will be revealed. In the daytime we look toward heaven but do not see the stars. They are there, fixed in the firmament, but the eye cannot distinguish them. In the night we behold their genuine luster.--5T 80, 81 (1882). {LDE 181.1}
On every occasion that persecution takes place, the witnesses make decisions, either for Christ or against Him. Those who show sympathy for the men wrongly condemned, who are not bitter against them, show their attachment for Christ.--ST Feb. 20, 1901. {LDE 181.2}
Let opposition arise, let bigotry and intolerance again bear sway, let persecution be kindled, and the half-hearted and hypocritical will waver and yield the faith; but the true Christian will stand firm as a rock, his faith stronger, his hope brighter than in days of prosperity.--GC 602 (1911). {LDE 181.3}

New Converts Will Take
the Places of Those Who Leave


Some had been shaken out and left by the way. The careless and indifferent, who did not join with those who prized victory and salvation enough to perseveringly plead and agonize for it, did not obtain it, and they were left behind in darkness, and their places were immediately filled by others taking hold of the truth and coming into the ranks.--EW 271 (1858). {LDE 182.1}
The broken ranks will be filled up by those represented by Christ as coming in at the eleventh hour. There are many with whom the Spirit of God is striving. The time of God's destructive judgments is the time of mercy for those who [now] have no opportunity to learn what is truth. Tenderly will the Lord look upon them. His heart of mercy is touched, His hand is still stretched out to save, while the door is closed to those who would not enter. Large numbers will be admitted who in these last days hear the truth for the first time.--Letter 103, 1903. {LDE 182.2}
Standard after standard was left to trail in the dust as company after company from the Lord's army joined the foe and tribe after tribe from the ranks of the enemy united with the commandment-keeping people of God.--8T 41 (1904). {LDE 182.3}

Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Mountain Man] #117581
08/12/09 08:36 PM
08/12/09 08:36 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Mike,

I think you mean "those who don't imitate the sinless example of Jesus and keep Sunday"?

Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Rosangela] #117603
08/13/09 02:14 AM
08/13/09 02:14 AM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Quote:
I haven't been following thid thread, but it seems to me the concept of the remnant has nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with a message to the world.

could you elaborate on that more. i didnt quite understand it.

It seems to me that to the SDA Church was entrusted a special message of God to the world. This is different from saying that all those who accept the message are saved. This is also different from saying that no other church at present is fulfilling Jesus' comission of preaching the gospel to the whole world. However, at the end, when the world is divided into only two classes - those who serve God and those who oppose God - all those who serve God will be in harmony with the message entrusted to the SDA Church - the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
i thought that was what you meant but wanted to be certain before i heartily agreed.

i think we need to be so careful not to give the impression to non-sdas that we believe that any who are not sda do not have God.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: teresaq] #117616
08/13/09 09:09 AM
08/13/09 09:09 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
They better not read this thread @ theresas conclusion.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: vastergotland] #117622
08/13/09 03:14 PM
08/13/09 03:14 PM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: västergötland
They better not read this thread @ theresas conclusion.
now could you elaborate? im confused as to your point.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: teresaq] #117651
08/14/09 01:14 AM
08/14/09 01:14 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Any non-sda would have to read about till the 6th page until learning that sda theology acctually does not condemn them to hell..


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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