Now, maybe I am stating the obvious to others. But this has been a dawning realization to me.

Ellen White has written in various places statements such as this found in Counsels on Diet and Foods, "Health Reform and the Third Angel's Message", pg. 75:
We understand that the Sabbath is involved in the third angel's message and is / will be under attack at the last days. If the health reform is closely related with the third angel's message, would it follow that it will be / has been under attack?

When you look at the members of the Adventist church and you hear comments such as, "I'm not ready to give up ....", it causes one to wonder if Satan has been more successful with attacking health than the Sabbath. Could it be once he has sickened us physically and mentally, it will be a push over regarding moral things?

Then, with this blatant attack on health with the flu vaccinations, I don't believe it is some type of "test run" against the Sabbath, but the real deal. The health reform bill before congress is going to lead the lambs to the slaughter. I had heard from someone, (don't know about its validity) that the bill includes items such as if The Powers determine you need to be vaccinated, you will be. No choice. Easy to construe it as a "matter of national security". I believe it was Maryland I heard on the news is making it a patriotic duty and mandatory to be vaccinated. My wife works at a hospital where they are going to require masks if she doesn't take the flu vaccine. I wonder if a yellow star of David would suffice?

Take a look at your churches. In our church, there is only a half a dozen out of about a 100 that even attempt to follow the health message. And with the majority, you don't need to do a survey to determine that. Observing the potlucks would be more convincing. If you should listen to their comments regarding health, any remaining doubt is removed.

Take look at our hospitals. In what way are they following the instruction given them?

If we are still eating meat (after 100 years following, "soon need to give it up"), eating refined sugar, refined foods, fast foods, junk, making our bodies plugged up, suffering in mind and body, how are we going to stand for the truth? If we are living no differently than the world, how are we going to come out of Babylon, uphold the Sabbath, if we are in the hospitals, taking the poisonous drugs which we have been told never cures disease, if we are so dependent mentally and physically on the government to take care of us?

The masses are being scared into taking this swine flu vaccination and willingly subject to it without questioning. Why hasn't there been a light into this world that vaccinations do not work, that disease isn't cured by magic lotions and potions but by eight natural remedies? Is it because we have not been following our instruction on health reform given over 100 years ago which would have given ample evidence of real cure and have people flocking to us to find out how to be healed? And we pat ourselves on the backs for a pitiful 5-7 years longer life. And that isn't saying what kind of quality those years are and even leading up to them.

Sorry, but had to unload. It just appears to me that satan has planted his flag on the hill of health reform declaring a success and is ready for the next hill to conquer.

Bless your heart, kland. What you say is so true. I'm so concerned for our people (SDAs) who seem for the most part to have abandoned the health message and are suffering the consequences.

Let us not be discouraged, though, but pray that the Lord will awaken us to the need to implement this message. Indeed, the "world" in many instances has been proclaiming the very message God gave us so many years ago. Indeed, He is raising up others to do what we should have been doing. Let us not be left behind as we meet the great challenge of implementing and proclaiming this wonderful message.

Suzanne

Why would a hospital worry about getting a flue infection spread among staff and patients? It could of course be that they want to restrict it out of some sort of control craving, but it might also be that they want to restrict any outbreak of flue to give the patients out of whom most already are weak by one disease or other a better chance to recover. A mask would prevent the one carrying it from spreading flue through his or her exhaust breath.

Why have the masses failed to realise that vaccinations do not work? Could it possibly have something to do with the amazing correlation where increases in smallpox vaccination invariably has lead to a sharp decrease in death by the disease? Further, could the publics shocking ignorance of the inefficiancy of vaccin have anything to do with the disappearance of smallpox, the near disapearance of polio and the greatly diminished occurance of measles since vaccination of each of these diseases began?
When was the last time you meet someone paralysed by polio? When did you last meet someone in grief over a lost loved one to measles? A disease which killed 200 milion people within the 150 years that the adventist church has existed? When did you last know someone who died of smallpox, which used to be the leading cause of death in for instance europe?
Although, you are probably right. Someone must educate people not to pay attention to examples such as these and be encouraged to stand up for their right to die out of preventable diseases. How else would we be able to keep our hospital staff busy?

Has there been known to have occurred in the past a spread in massive outbreaks of flu from workers to patients? Has there been studies done to show those workers with the flu, but wearing masks, and those with the flu without wearing masks and show what percentage of patients became infected?

Have masks been shown to stop spread of disease from those wearing them? Especially, how often would they need to be changed. Currently, nothing about that has been said. Nor anything about how tight fitting.

I'll let you start with those. It might save further questions.

Are there examples of such flu outbreaks? Quite possibly, but I am not sitting with a pile of such examples in front of me. Have the experiment you suggest been carried out? I strongly doubt it. No responcible government would allow workers infected with flu to go to work for experimental reasons. However, since it is established that flu spreads through dropplets of liquid coming out of the mouth and nose of infected people it would seem logical that covering these would prevent or strongly reduce further spread. Why this relates to hospital workers at work is that the flu can be contageous before giving its first symtoms.

I dont have the mask research here either, nor do I have time to find it for you. You may go on beliving whatever suits your fancy about it.

Don't get too busy with masks...., brethren!

Smallpox and polio are severe - I've known of measles as a mild disease, but that may depend on personal immune system strength. After all, it should first occur when one is a child of around 10, and the body develops immune reactions to it, useful for the rest of life: no, I've known no-one who has died of measles. The scare over measles is best handled by boosting natural immunity...

The real issue over measles is the triple MMR, measles, mumps and rubella vaccine: it's untested as a triple vaccine...! But, it gets the same publicity as this new, suspiciously untested swine flu vaccine....

"New diseases" and their vaccines are the problem, not major outbreaks of the past like polio. Natural immunity is under attack - we shouldn't bother to sustain natural defences..., as is well known.

västergötland, before we continue, I have a couple of questions I believe are relevant.

Do you eat meat?

What do you make of the following quotes?

Vaccination ceased the major outbreaks of the past, that is the point. If you have a child of about 10 years of age and you arrange for this child to get measles through for instance playing with an sick child, then this is a form of crude vaccination. Crude because they are playing with the real thing rather than with a weak form of it. Vaccination is simply to help the body create immune reactions against a particular disease under more controlled forms.

Not sure why this is relevant for anything we have been discussing here, but the answer is: sometimes. Never is a very strong word to use. Perhaps this was true in Ellens day, maybe, but I do not think you could be both honest and informed and accept this as true today.
If your child has a fever, do you give him/her an aspirin or do you stick to principle and refrain? If he/she is biten by a rattlesnake, do you take him/her to hospital to get an antivenom or do you stick to principle and do nothing while the poison does its work? If your child gets a blood poisoning, do you take him/her to hospital where they will get an antibiotic or do you stick to principle and keep your child at home? If your child has a appendicitis, do you take him/her to hospital where different drugs will surely be part of the treatment or do you keep him/her at home waiting for come whatever may?

How strong are your principles?

Kland,
In order to be consistent, you should have included genetically modified vegetables which are in the food chain. Any reason you left those out?
It would have made for a much more sincere "Sounding of the trumpet" instead of your comment to västergötland:


It is worth your while to research this. You may be surprised to know the last papaya you ate may have been part fish.

God Bless,
-Will