PS - For the record, I haven't ruled out the idea that God will engulf the wicked with fire from above and from below and then keep them alive supernaturally so that they can be punished according to their sinfulness. Neither the Bible nor the SOP says so one way or the other. Both simply say literal fire will be present.

The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: [this shall be] the portion of their cup. For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright. (Psalm 11:5-7)

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. (Revelation 14:10)

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20)

Those majestic trees which God had caused to grow upon the earth, for the benefit of the inhabitants of the old world, and which they had used to form into idols, and to corrupt themselves with, God has reserved in the earth, in the shape of coal and oil to use as agencies in their final destruction. As he called forth the waters in the earth at the time of the flood, as weapons from his arsenal to accomplish the destruction of the antediluvian race, so at the end of the one thousand years he will call forth the fires in the earth as his weapons which he has reserved for the final destruction, not only of successive generations since the flood, but the antediluvian race who perished by the flood. {3SG 87.1}
When the flood of waters was at its height upon the earth, it had the appearance of a boundless lake of water. When God finally purifies the earth, it will appear like a boundless lake of fire. As God preserved the ark amid the commotions of the flood, because it contained eight righteous persons, he will preserve the New Jerusalem, containing the faithful of all ages, from righteous Abel down to the last saint which lived. Although the whole earth, with the exception of that portion where the city rests, will be wrapped in a sea of liquid fire, yet the city is preserved as was the ark, by a miracle of Almighty power. It stands unharmed amid the devouring elements. "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein shall be burned up." {3SG 87.2}

GC, has Tom misunderstood what you're saying? Are you saying God will engulf the wicked in fire and then keep them alive supernaturally so they can be punished in proportion and in duration to their sinfulness? Never mind, for the moment, that Tom said "for the purpose of torturing them for many hours or many days".

At the general conference of believers in the present truth, held at Sutton, Vermont, September, 1850, I was shown that the seven last plagues will be poured out after Jesus leaves the sanctuary. Said the angel, "It is the wrath of God and the Lamb that causes the destruction or death of the wicked. At the voice of God the saints will be mighty and terrible as an army with banners, but they will not then execute the judgment written. The execution of the judgment will be at the close of the one thousand years." {EW 52.1}
After the saints are changed to immortality and caught up together with Jesus, after they receive their harps, their robes, and their crowns, and enter the city, Jesus and the saints sit in judgment. The books are opened--the book of life and the book of death. The book of life contains the good deeds of the saints; and the book of death contains the evil deeds of the wicked. These books are compared with the statute book, the Bible, and according to that men are judged. The saints, in unison with Jesus, pass their judgment upon the wicked dead. "Behold ye," said the angel, "the saints, in unison with Jesus, sit in judgment, and mete out to the wicked according to the deeds done in the body, and that which they must receive at the execution of the judgment is set off against their names." This, I saw, was the work of the saints with Jesus through the one thousand years in the Holy City before it descends to the earth....{EW 52.2}

M: In the beginning the smallest sin would have caused A&E to suffer intense emotional agony ending in instant death. And yet you believe the wicked will somehow be able to suffer the combined emotional agony of millions of sins for many, many days without dying immediately. How is this physically possible?

T: As their lives are reviewed, their sins are revealed. They are made aware of the times when Jesus was calling them, but they didn't heed His voice, and so forth.

M: They are resurrected in their previous state of decay and disease. Their physical ability to endure emotional hardship is greatly diminished, if not nonexistent. Nevertheless, you believe they are capable of enduring unimaginable agony for many, many days without dying instantly. Do you think God works to keep them alive supernaturally so that they can suffer? If so, what does this say about God's character?

T: I don't think God does anything supernatural to enable the wicked to suffer. What they suffer is due to their own choice, not something God imposes upon them, nor does God act supernaturally to augment their capacity to suffer.

M:You didn't address my point. Since one tiny sin is enough to cause people to die instantly of emotional anguish, why do you think resurrected sinners are able to endure millions of major sins in their dilapidated state without dying instantly after encountering the first sin? Obviously their ability to suffer so will be unnatural. Not even Jesus was able to suffer so without supernatural aid. And He managed to suffer for every sin ever committed in just 6 hours. Why do you think it will take some sinners several days to suffer for their sins?

GC, has Tom misunderstood what you're saying? Are you saying God will engulf the wicked in fire and then keep them alive supernaturally so they can be punished in proportion and in duration to their sinfulness? Never mind, for the moment, that Tom said "for the purpose of torturing them for many hours or many days".

PS - For the record, I haven't ruled out the idea that God will engulf the wicked with fire from above and from below and then keep them alive supernaturally so that they can be punished according to their sinfulness. Neither the Bible nor the SOP says so one way or the other. Both simply say literal fire will be present.

The saints, in unison with Jesus, pass their judgment upon the wicked dead. "Behold ye," said the angel, "the saints, in unison with Jesus, sit in judgment, and mete out to the wicked according to the deeds done in the body, and that which they must receive at the execution of the judgment is set off against their names."

*This* is the idea (not that God "tortures") that I have asserted you are advocating. I've asserted this a number of times, and asked you repeatedly to correct it if it not accurate, and have commented that I hope it is not accurate, as I think it's a dreadful idea, but up to now you have made no comment. Do you now wish to do so? I hope you do. If this is misrepresenting your idea, please let me know in what way it is doing so, and I will glad stop characterizing it this way.

It appears to me that you are saying what you say you are not saying.

T:Regarding "torture," surely you can see the difference between spanking a child and setting it on fire.

R:Until you cease using the term "torture" in such a pejorative manner, I don't see a need to respond.

GC:Suffice it to say-- if you see hell as casting God as a tyrant, you have an incorrect view of both.

I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. You interpret this to mean that you will be sitting on judgment on people, presumably people you know, so loved ones and friends, and deciding for how long a period they should be set on fire? So if you have, God forbid, some relative who is not among the blessed, your job will be to say, "I think my (fill in the blank; some family member or friend) should burn for X days"? And you're OK with this? And this is what you think God is like, that He would ask you to do something like this?

I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. You interpret this to mean that you will be sitting on judgment on people, presumably people you know, so loved ones and friends, and deciding for how long a period they should be set on fire? So if you have, God forbid, some relative who is not among the blessed, your job will be to say, "I think my (fill in the blank; some family member or friend) should burn for X days"? And you're OK with this? And this is what you think God is like, that He would ask you to do something like this?

The word "torture" has two forms: noun and verb. As a verb, anyone who does this is cruel. God is not cruel. As a noun, I might agree that this term can be applied to hell. Hell will be a place of intense suffering.

However, Ellen White was careful not to use "torture" at all in reference to the true depiction of hell.

GC:As her writings are inspired, I think it best to avoid the term as well.

GC:Your usage of the word "torture" in this thread has frequently been the verb form, which casts God in the wrong light, and which is entirely untrue. For these reasons I have requested that you refrain from using this word.