Mike,

I agree with you here. It is certainly possible to live without sin, else Jesus would never have asked us to do so. There are multiple commands in the scriptures along these lines. If we say we cannot live without sin, it opens up a slippery slope of logic that might lead one to conclude it doesn't matter what he does, God must save him in spite of it, by grace alone--which is false theology and will certainly be to the eternal ruin of many.

I also agree with statements from Mrs. White which say that no saint will ever claim perfection. I see no dissonance here, for it is certainly possible to be living sinlessly while at the same time being unaware of it--for as we draw close to God, we see how weak we are and come to depend upon Him wholly. I do not believe that those who live sinlessly realize it. They have had enough experience with sin to know the deceitfulness of their own hearts, and do not trust themselves at all to be strong, but put their entire weight, in faith, upon Christ.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I believe it is possible for those who have completed the process of converting to obeying and observing everything Jesus commanded them, who are abiding in Him, who are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, who are partaking of the divine nature, that it is possible for them to “go and sin no more.” However, it doesn’t mean they lose the ability or freedom to sin.

Regarding believers after probation closes, Ellen wrote: ". . . it is needful for them to be placed in the furnace of fire; their earthliness must be consumed, that the image of Christ may be perfectly reflected." {GC 621.1} Do you think this insight means their righteousness is stained with sin?

GC, thank you. I agree. Those who are experiencing the promises of perfection are so focused on Jesus that it doesn't occur to them they are living without sinning. Do you think the righteousness they experience while abiding in Jesus is stained with sin?

Do you believe you can become so perfect you (once all sins before your full conversion are forgiven) that you no longer need the righteousness of Christ to enable you to stand before a Holy God?

The sad part is that most people who focus on perfection, (instead of simply walking in humble obedience daily with Christ) are focusing on self not on Jesus.

Dedication,

I don't if you noticed this: Regarding believers after probation closes, Ellen wrote: ". . . it is needful for them to be placed in the furnace of fire; their earthliness must be consumed, that the image of Christ may be perfectly reflected." {GC 621.1}

Do you think this insight means their righteousness is stained with sin?

Why do you think they are "walking in humble obedience" when in reality their obedience is, if I understand you right, stained with sin? How can we call it "obedience" if it is stained with sin?

Yes, else why does "their earthliness have to be consumed".

I don't think we have the same definition for sin. You seem to think it's simply DOING it, or not doing it, but my Bible tells me there is a much deeper seating of sin -- the whole selfishness, the motives, the lack of genuine love, even at times thoughts of resistance that have to be banished at the foot of the cross, and a whole host of other things cause obedience to be imperfect.

What are we to do?
Give up because we (if we are really honest with ourselves) realize we aren't fully measuring up even if we grit our teeth and do it, or don't do it (whatever the issue)
Or trust in Christ's merits and accepting His grace and acceptance of us, seeking His will and obeying as best we can as we walk and talk with Him, knowing it's His merits that count, not our own.

It's so much easier to obey and rejoice in the Lord knowing this, then forever worrying about whether we are truly converted and if we'll ever make it (and down in despair because after all these years we still aren't perfect) and fear we'll never be accepted as we view the sin stains on our obedience.

Isn't that the very basis of righteousness by faith? Recognizing our need, and accepting Christ's merits instead of trying to present our own?
Why were the strong preachers of the law so against the 1888 message? They all acknowledged Christ's sacrifice and forgiveness of prior sins. But they couldn't accept the fact that all their battle with sin wasn't good enough!

Micah 6:8 He has showed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.


Walk with Christ in humble obedience on a day by day, hour by hour basis, and don't worry about perfection, just walk with Him in obedience. He will give victories, yes. He will transform character, yes. He will make us more Christlike, yes. But our job is simply to walk with God in humble obedience accepting HIS MERITS and knowing that only in His merits are we perfect.

Thanks for the Post D.

It brought the following texts in mind :

"...give glory to Him..." Rev 14:7

"And men were scorched with great heat,... and they repented not to give him glory."Rev 16:9

"Having the glory of God: and her light [was] like unto a stone most precious..."Rev 21:11

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof." Rev 21:23

"And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it." Rev 21:24

"To him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. AMEN!" 1Pe 5:11