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Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123223
02/05/10 05:15 PM
02/05/10 05:15 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, taking your point a little further, is it possible to predict that such people will not sin when tempted, that they will imitate the example of Jesus and resist unto the honor and glory of God?

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123232
02/05/10 08:18 PM
02/05/10 08:18 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Assuming you're speaking of people who have died, yes.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123240
02/06/10 03:33 AM
02/06/10 03:33 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Does it matter if the kind of people you described are dead or alive so far as predicting they will resist temptation and not sin? Or, concerning the living, do you think it is impossible to predict, based on character, they will not sin?

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123244
02/06/10 06:38 AM
02/06/10 06:38 AM
Tom  Offline
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Yes, it matters. We know the character of the dead does not change after being resurrected. Therefore it must be possible to determine if they would be happy in heaven at the time of their death based on their character. This isn't necessarily the case for those who are living, although it could be (that is, some may have hardened their hearts and committed the unpardonable sin, and others may by like Job, whom God knows will not be shaken, no matter what happened).


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123254
02/06/10 08:17 PM
02/06/10 08:17 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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What changes after people die that makes it possible to say with absolute certainty they will not sin after they are resurrected? And, why couldn't the same thing be said a month or two before they die?

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123261
02/07/10 01:13 AM
02/07/10 01:13 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
What changes after people die that makes it possible to say with absolute certainty they will not sin after they are resurrected?


Nothing changes *after* they die.

Quote:
And, why couldn't the same thing be said a month or two before they die?


I said this might be possible.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123391
02/18/10 07:32 PM
02/18/10 07:32 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, do you think it is possible to postulate someone like Moses would have repented had they not died before being able to repent? And, do you think it counts as repentance? Or, do you think repentance in such cases is unnecessary? Also, do you think it is possible to postulate people like Moses will not sin?

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123416
02/19/10 03:37 AM
02/19/10 03:37 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Tom, do you think it is possible to postulate someone like Moses would have repented had they not died before being able to repent? And, do you think it counts as repentance? Or, do you think repentance in such cases is unnecessary? Also, do you think it is possible to postulate people like Moses will not sin?


Regarding the first question, I've said it's clear what Moses' heart (character) was. Regarding the second, I've said there's no need for anything "count" for repentance. Regarding the third, if Moses had died, no, no repentance would have been necessary (or possible, him being dead). Regarding the last, if you're talking about in heaven, yes, of course. Nobody in heaven will sin.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123428
02/19/10 05:16 PM
02/19/10 05:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Charter Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Here's how I see you answering the following questions:

1. Do you think it is possible to postulate someone like Moses would have repented had they not died before being able to repent?

T: Yes. People like Moses would have repented had they not died. Their characters make it possible for us to say, yes, they would have repented.

2. Do you think knowing they would have repented had they not died counts as repentance? Or, do you think repentance in such cases is unnecessary?

T: No to the first question, and yes to the second. People like Moses have characters that make repenting redundant. There is no need to repent when they sin because their characters make it clear they will be happy in heaven.

3. Do you think it is possible to postulate people like Moses will not sin?

T: Yes. People like Moses will not sin in heaven. It is also possible to say with absolute certainty, based solely on their characters, that people like Moses will not sin when tempted in this lifetime.

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123444
02/20/10 12:55 AM
02/20/10 12:55 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Here's how I see you answering the following questions:

1. Do you think it is possible to postulate someone like Moses would have repented had they not died before being able to repent?

T: Yes. People like Moses would have repented had they not died. Their characters make it possible for us to say, yes, they would have repented.


Ok.

Quote:
2. Do you think knowing they would have repented had they not died counts as repentance? Or, do you think repentance in such cases is unnecessary?

T: No to the first question, and yes to the second. People like Moses have characters that make repenting redundant. There is no need to repent when they sin because their characters make it clear they will be happy in heaven.


Ok to the second question, but in regards to the first I don't think the concept of "counting towards repentance" makes sense, so I wouldn't answer it either "yes" or "no."

Quote:
3. Do you think it is possible to postulate people like Moses will not sin?

T: Yes. People like Moses will not sin in heaven.


Ok.

Quote:
It is also possible to say with absolute certainty, based solely on their characters, that people like Moses will not sin when tempted in this lifetime.


But Moses did sin. So this is clearly false. So no, I wouldn't say this.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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