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Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: lco] #125601
05/27/10 04:48 AM
05/27/10 04:48 AM
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lco  Offline
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Just a quick recap, the seven thunders occurred during the proclamation of the first and second angels message (period of 1840 - 1844) and the events will be disclosed in the future just before the close of probation.

Does inspiration tell us anywhere else that this period between 1840-1844 is going to be repeated or fulfilled to the very letter?

I'm not going to put the whole chapter here but in chapter 22 of GC titled Prophecies Fulfilled, the pen of inspiration lets us know that the parable of the 10 virgins was fulfilled during the millerite time period completing in 1844.

Then we are told. SOP quote:

This parable has been and will be fulfilled to the very letter, for it has a special application to this time, and, like the third angel's message, has been fulfilled and will continue to be present truth till the close of time. {RH, August 19, 1890 par. 3}

So not only do the seven thunders teach us that the millerite time period will be repeated, but the parable of the 10 virgins was fulfilled during the same time period and will be "fulfilled to the very letter" again.

Also if you have the understanding that Revelation 10 talks about the millerite time period (you can read in {CTr 340.1}) at the end of Revelation 10 it says, Bible quote:

Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

The Lord is telling us that these things must happen again.

Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: lco] #125602
05/27/10 05:35 AM
05/27/10 05:35 AM
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lco  Offline
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I left the greatest and best evidence for last.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ given to John on the isle of Patmos to His servants, the students of prophecy, what is the primary and most important characteristic which the Lord repeats of Himself?

("The Lord does not repeat things that are of no great consequence."--Ms 107, 1897, pp. 1, 2)

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:
Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

And what does this mean that He is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last?

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

The pleasure of the God, declaring the end from the beginning. If you read from Isaiah 40 onward the Lord explains this characteristic of Himself declaring what will occur at the end by what he has declared from the beginning. Bible quote:

Ecclesiastes 1:9 ¶ The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

Ecclesiastes 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

For the student of prophecy, the greatest tool that the Lord has given his people for the understanding of Revelation is, that He declares the end from the beginning.

So when were the beginnings of Adventism? When were the foundations and platform of The Seventh Day Adventist Church Laid? Because if were are to believe Christ, to understand the Seven Thunders or The End of Adventism we have to go back to the beginning of Adventism.

And when we do, we will have an understanding of the 'events' which Satan is so desperately trying stop us from learning. But the Lion of the Tribe of Judah will prevail with the faithful servants who do HIs Will. SOP quote:

The warning has come: Nothing is to be allowed to come in that will disturb the foundation of the faith upon which we have been building ever since the message came in 1842, 1843, and 1844. I was in this message, and ever since I have been standing before the world, true to the light that God has given us. We do not propose to take our feet off the platform on which they were placed as day by day we sought the Lord with earnest prayer, seeking for light. Do you think that I could give up the light that God has given me? It is to be as the Rock of Ages. It has been guiding me ever since it was given. {GCB, April 6, 1903 par. 35}

I pray that you now have somewhat of an understanding of what the Seven Thunders represents, simply put, The Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Jesus Christ, Declaring the end from the beginning, which for us, is, there are 'seven thunders' or 'events' which will be repeated at the end and Satan is trying to prevent any which way he can to stop us from learning this understanding.

Lord willing, next will try to explain why or what Islam has to do with all this. SOP quote:

There are periods which are turning points in the history of nations and of the church. In the providence of God, when these different crises arrive, the light for that time is given. If it is received, there is spiritual progress; if it is rejected, spiritual declension and shipwreck follow. {BEcho, August 26, 1895 par. 11}

Last edited by lco; 05/27/10 06:01 AM.
Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: lco] #125608
05/28/10 10:41 AM
05/28/10 10:41 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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lco,

Thank you for posting your studies here. They are thought provoking. I would like to look at them in more detail when I have more time. It does make some sense to my logical mind that the thunders would be discernible to those who study carefully and with the Holy Spirit's help. Otherwise, why would they have been mentioned at all? The Bible has no vestigial organs.

welcome to the forum!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: lco] #125626
05/29/10 12:08 AM
05/29/10 12:08 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Welcome Ico. I agree that the seven thunders are events. Would you mind sharing your list of the seven when you have a moment. Personally, I think they're still sealed because the Mighty Angel's stance on the sea and land indicating a global enlightenment is still future. But if you could briefly tell me why you think they're unsealed along with your list, that would be great.

Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Charity] #125629
05/29/10 04:48 AM
05/29/10 04:48 AM
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lco  Offline
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Happy Sabbath,

Hello brothers, I will be getting to the seven thunders, but it seems wise to put some more evidence before getting there. I pray that you will see why this is best.

Upon the testimony of two or three a thing is established -

This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. 2 Corinthians 13:1

And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass. Genesis 41:32

Upon the testimony of the bible and the spirit of prophecy, it is clear that the seven thunders are:

1 - events

2 - have already occurred once during the millerite time period (time period of the first and second angels message)

3 - and SOP and the bible clearly reveal that they will occur again

Not going to put the whole first chapter of GC here, but it is important how this book begins. Here we see Jesus crying, but this is, "not of ordinary grief, but of intense, irrepressible agony" - Would recommend reading the whole chapter.

"If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, and shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation." Luke 19:42-44. {GC 17.1}
From the crest of Olivet, Jesus looked upon Jerusalem. Fair and peaceful was the scene spread out before Him. It was the season of the Passover, and from all lands the children of Jacob had gathered there to celebrate the great national festival. In the midst of gardens and vineyards, and green slopes studded with pilgrims' tents, rose the terraced hills, the stately palaces, and massive bulwarks of Israel's capital. The daughter of Zion seemed in her pride to say, I sit a queen and shall see no sorrow; as lovely then, and deeming herself as secure in Heaven's favor, as when, ages before, the royal minstrel sang: "Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is Mount Zion, . . . the city of the great King." Psalm 48:2. In full view were the magnificent buildings of the temple. The rays of the setting sun lighted up the snowy whiteness of its marble walls and gleamed from golden gate and tower and pinnacle. "The perfection of beauty" it stood, the pride of the Jewish nation. What child of Israel could gaze upon the scene without a thrill of joy and admiration! But far other thoughts occupied the mind of Jesus. "When He was come near, He beheld the city, and wept over it." Luke 19:41. Amid the universal rejoicing of the triumphal entry, while palm branches waved, while glad hosannas awoke the echoes of the hills, and thousands of voices declared Him king, the world's Redeemer was overwhelmed with a sudden and mysterious sorrow. He, the Son of God, the Promised One of Israel, whose power had conquered death and called its captives from the grave, was in tears, not of ordinary grief, but of intense, irrepressible agony. {GC 17.2}

The jews were about to be swept away in a very grotesque way, all because they did not know the day of their visitation. They were required to study the prophecies, so they might know.

Are we required to know the day of our visitation? Later on in GC Sister White tells us that words can not describe what is about to befall us.

In DA, we are told that the Gospel is based on prophecy, so can we proclaim the gospel without prophecy? Is it any wonder then, that the Lord in his infinite wisdom declared the surest portion of His Word, is prophecy! Bible quote:

2Peter 1:19 ¶ We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

And the increase of knowledge is, SOP quote:

There were men and women who were eagerly seeking for knowledge, the sure word of prophecy, and when it came, it was as a light shining in a dark place.” Spalding Magan, 58.

So the jews did not heed the warning clearly laid out in prophecy, but the more important question now is will we? Again SOP quote:

The events connected with the close of probation and the work of preparation for the time of trouble, are clearly presented. But multitudes have no more understanding of these important truths than if they had never been revealed. Satan watches to catch away every impression that would make them wise unto salvation, and the time of trouble will find them unready. {GC 594.1}

If they are clearly presented, where should we look for them? Because we have been told through the bible and sop that we are laodiceans and we are blind. So how can a blind people see? Bible quote:

1Samuel 9:9 (Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Brothers, we must trust in the prophets, for it is through them that the Lord GOD will reveal that which satan is trying to keep from us. We will see through the prophets.

So John the Revelator has told us that Christ is the First and The Last, The Alpha and the Omega. He teaches us what is going to happen at the end by what happened at the beginning. And SOP:


“Each of the ancient prophets spoke less for their own time than for ours, so that their prophesying is in force for us. ‘Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.’ 1 Corinthians 10:11. ‘Not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.’ 1 Peter 1:12. . . .
“The Bible has accumulated and bound up together its treasures for this last generation. All the great events and solemn transactions of Old Testament history have been, and are, repeating themselves in the church in these last days.” Selected Messages, book 3, 338–339

This is critical to understand, this characteristic of Christ. It is absolutely essential to the student of prophecy to clearly believe and have an understanding of this. If not what is the point of reading the ancient truths? Would dare say, that if you reject this truth, you are rejecting Christ Himself.

SOP quote:

The work of God in the earth presents, from age to age, a striking similarity in every great reformation or religious movement. The principles of God's dealing with men are ever the same. The important movements of the present have their parallel in those of the past, and the experience of the church in former ages has lessons of great value for our own time. {GC88 343.1}

Going to stop here to emphasize the importance of this last quote.

Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: lco] #125633
05/29/10 01:16 PM
05/29/10 01:16 PM
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Old Timer, you posted above that Bro. Jeff is practicing Gnosticism. From what I can see Pippenger, unlike the example you cite, is still grounded in Ellen White’s writings. We all have our own views. Gnosticism takes personal knowledge to an extreme in teaching that certain secret knowledge is essential and subtly superimposing the notion that only those initiated into this enlightened understanding are truly enlightened. I agree though that Bro. Jeff has many supporters who are indiscrete in their praise of him and that’s likely had a negative effect.

I thought I’d give an overview of the development of Brother Jeff’s prophetic understanding. Pippenger has spent a good part of his life expounding the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, especially Daniel 11:40 to 45 and more recently the sixth trumpet of Revelation 9-11 which he applies to 9/11. No doubt these were important events in world history, but do they fulfill prophecy?

In the early 90’s Pippenger began teaching that the fall of communism was a fulfillment of Daniel 11:40. Some conservative Adventist bible students, notably Hope International, reviewed his material and concluded he may be right. They published a series of his articles on the topic. But no consensus was reached among conservative Adventists on the issue and when after 9/11 Bro Jeff started to apply the sixth trumpet to the destruction of the twin towers on 9/11/01 by Islamic terrorists most conservative Adventists rejected his interpretation. Since then there have been efforts among conservatives to dialogue and reconcile differences but the gap between Pippenger and conservative Adventism has widened.

Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Charity] #125634
05/29/10 01:27 PM
05/29/10 01:27 PM
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Pippenger’s lens for viewing all prophetic interpretation is the long held Adventist belief that there can be no literal reapplications of the trumpets or seals or any time elements of the prophecies. I empathize with him a great deal. On one hand he can see that the world is on the verge of its final great conflict and the return of Christ. He senses the urgency of the situation and the great need of God’s people for prophetic guidance. But he has accepted and bound himself by the view that none of the prophecies, especially their time elements, can be reapplied.

Whereas some conservative Adventists allow for the possibility the prophecies could be repeated so long as all time elements are removed, Pippenger is more thorough going. He believes that if a prophecy can’t be repeated in full, it can’t be repeated. In my view that position is better and more consistent than the view that a prophecy can be reapplied with the time elements removed. Either a prophecy applies to the future, all of it, or it doesn’t. Prophecy can’t be laundered. It has to be accepted as is.

Below I’ll look briefly at his two main teachings and at how his assumptions have shaped his teaching and whether those assumptions are sound.

Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Charity] #125635
05/29/10 01:32 PM
05/29/10 01:32 PM
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The Fall of Communism
Students of prophecy are aware that for the last 120 years most Adventists have accepted Uriah Smith’s interpretation applying the king of the south in the last part of Daniel 11 to atheistic, revolutionary France. Pippenger builds on that view and modifies it by applying the same symbol to atheistic, revolutionary Communism. I respectfully disagree and suggest here that Daniel 11:40 is still future where the conflict between the Kings of the South and North refers to a literal battle(s), possibly the physical side of the Battle of Armageddon, which now appears to be shaping into an East-West conflict.

Pippenger in this context interprets the King of North as John Paul II allied with Ronald Regan. In my view, the references in verses 40 to 45 to the King of the North are better applied to the future workings of the image-beast of the second half of Revelation 13 rather than to Regan and the Pope.

Adventists agree that the image-beast is the last beast of prophecy. It is through the influence of Protestant America that the image-beast will be erected and worshipped. The ten kings of Revelation 17 are said to give their power to this beast for a short time. Ellen White identifies these ten kings as the Protestant churches of America.

Quote:
What is it that gives its kingdom to this power? Protestantism, a power which, while professing to have the temper and spirit of a lamb and to be allied to Heaven, speaks with the voice of a dragon. It is moved by a power from beneath. {Mar 187.2}(Letter 232, 1899). {7BC 983.5}

Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Charity] #125636
05/29/10 01:41 PM
05/29/10 01:41 PM
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9/11

Ellen White makes a number of statements on the future application of the seals and trumpets which I’ve posted here on other threads. If these are taken at face value as they should be, then all seven trumpets and seals have future applications. Whether brother Jeff is right or wrong on his application of the sixth trumpet to 9/11, the main application is still future when all seven trumpets sound and all seven seals are unsealed. Some of his material may be helpful in understanding how that trumpet, the sixth, will unfold. Unfortunately though, in his application of this prophecy to 9/11, Brother Pippenger has begun making his interpretation a test of faith and is drawing parallels from sacred history that aren’t always sustained by Scripture. Why does he do that?

In my view, it’s not that Pippenger is a poor Bible student. He is a good one. The reason for his parallelisms is because, while his approach doesn’t allow direct, literal reapplication of prophecy it does allow ‘parallels.’ Pippenger has avoided being branded as a futurist by some, but forged his own unique future applications by ‘parallelisms’. Before joining his ranks, I suggest that a person would want to investigate carefully whether Brother Pippenger’s underlying assumption – no future literal application of time prophecies – is well founded.

Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: lco] #125658
05/31/10 06:01 AM
05/31/10 06:01 AM
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Revelation 1:1 ¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

The whole Bible is a revelation; for all revelation to men comes through Christ, and all centers in Him. God has spoken unto us by His Son, whose we are by creation and by redemption. Christ came to John exiled on the Isle of Patmos to give him the truth for these last days, to show him that which must shortly come to pass. Jesus Christ is the great trustee of divine revelation. It is through Him that we have a knowledge of what we are to look for in the closing scenes of this earth's history. God gave this revelation to Christ, and Christ communicated the same to John. {7BC 953.7}
John, the beloved disciple, was the one chosen to receive this revelation. He was the last survivor of the first chosen disciples. Under the New Testament dispensation he was honored as the prophet Daniel was honored under the Old Testament dispensation. {7BC 953.8}
The instruction to be communicated to John was so important that Christ came from heaven to give it to His servant, telling him to send it to the churches. This instruction is to be the object of our careful and prayerful study; for we are living in a time when men who are not under the teaching of the Holy Spirit will bring in false theories. These men have been standing in high places, and they have ambitious projects to carry out. They seek to exalt themselves, and to revolutionize the whole showing of things. God has given us special instruction to guard us against such ones. He bade John write in a book that which should take place in the closing scenes of this earth's history (MS 129, 1905). {7BC 953.9}

Christ Himself, roared as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and when he roared, seven thunders uttered their voices.

And when Christ describes His character for the student of prophecy, He tells us that He teaches what will happen at the end by what happened at the beginning, The Alpha and The Omega.

The seven thunders are a delineation of events that occurred during the millerite time period and will again be repeated.

At the beginning of Adventism and at the end of Adventism.

What was the purpose of their sealing? Surely their must be a purpose to that!

Have we not read already that the millerites were going through a testing process? SOP quote:

It was not best for the people to know these things, for their faith must necessarily be tested. {7BC 971.6}

Sure enough! so if the seven thunders were sealed up after the millerite time period, is not the purpose of the sealing to test us!

Of course! remember Daniel and Revelation are one book and in Daniel chapter 12 we see the test come to us. Bible quote:

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

So there is going to come a time when knowledge will be increased, but the wicked (or the tares) will not understand, and the wise will understand. But not only that, SOP quote:

. . . they will see only something which in their blindness they think dangerous, something which will arouse their fears, and they will brace themselves to resist it. RH May 27, 1890.

So just as the injuction comes to John, it comes to Daniel, the knowledge is sealed up till the time of the end.

But now we know were to look for the seven thunders. Have we not received light directly from the Word of God were to find the increase of knowledge? Is this not the characteristic of Christ that we must understand in order to receive the light on the seven thunders?

We must go back to the old paths and search, The First and The Last has spoken it, and who dares challenge His authority. Is it not satan, the serpent, the great deceiver who is trying to hide that truth from us? Bring doubt on our foundations? Does not satan have his minions doing his work to stop us from following a direct command from Christ Himself?

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

Isaiah 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels' messages. {7BC 971.6}

Upon the testimony of two or three a thing is established in the Word of God.

And a fourth testimony SOP quote:

The work of God in the earth presents, from age to age, a striking similarity in every great reformation or religious movement. The principles of God's dealing with men are ever the same. The important movements of the present have their parallel in those of the past, and the experience of the church in former ages has lessons of great value for our own time. {GC88 343.1}

And there are more, but the evidence is beyond clear.

So now as we have just discussed, were not the millerites tested? were not the jews tested? Are we going to be tested? Yes, yes and yes. Bible quote:

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Would not the Lord, in his mercy let us know when the testing time begins? The Lord will honor His Word.

Now simple logic will suffice. What event occured during the time period of the jews and the time period of Jesus, that marked the beginning of the testing period? What event marked the beginning of the testing period during the millerite time period? Because if we can establish that, if we can identify an event that precedes the testing time period, can we not with the authority of Christ Himself say that our testing time period has begun? Is this not the characteristic of Christ, to let us know from ancient times? SOP quote:

The work of God in the earth presents, from age to age, a striking similarity . . .

. . . God's dealing with men are ever the same . . .

movements of the present have their parallel in those of the past, . . .

. . . the experience of the church in former ages has lessons of great value for our own time. {GC88 343.1}

Bible quote:

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matthew 4:1 ¶ Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

Revelation 10:1 ¶ And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
Revelation 10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
Revelation 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
Revelation 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

Revelation 18:1 ¶ And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Daniel 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
Daniel 10:15 And when he had spoken such words unto me, I set my face toward the ground, and I became dumb.
Daniel 10:16 And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake, and said unto him that stood before me, O my lord, by the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I have retained no strength.
Daniel 10:17 For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me.
Daniel 10:18 Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me,
Daniel 10:19 And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.
Daniel 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Here see the signature of Christ, The Alpha and The Omega, The First and The Last, doing His pleasure, declaring the end from the beginning, from ancient times, roaring as the Lion of The Tribe of Judah.

When the testing time came in the period of the jews and Jesus, a Heavenly being came down marking the beginning of that time period, and Jesus first went out to be tested, and then Jesus tested the jews with his message.

When the millerite testing period began (for we are told clearly that they were tested during the period of the seven thunders) The Angel of Revelation 10 came down, a Heavenly being marking the beginning of the testing period, and most assuredly they were tested.

And for us, upon the testimony of two or three a thing is established, when the Angel of Revelation 18 came down our testing time began.

The seven thunders relate to the beginning of Adventism and the end of Adventism.

On August 11, 1840 the prophecy of Revelation 9:15 was fulfilled (see GC 334-335)

On September 11, 2001 the prophecy in Ezekiel 37:9-11, Revelation 9:11, Testimonies volume 9 page 11, Zephaniah 1:16, Review and Herald July 5, 1906 par. 14, all pointing to this point in time. The evidence is overwhelming!

There are periods which are turning points in the history of nations and of the church. In the providence of God, when these different crises arrive, the light for that time is given. If it is received, there is spiritual progress; if it is rejected, spiritual declension and shipwreck follow. {BEcho, August 26, 1895 par. 11}

Ask any person in the world if September 11 was not a turning point in the history of the world. We as a people have been given more light than any other people in the history of the world. Yet what does Jeremiah tell us Bible quote:

Jeremiah 6:17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

So how does the trumpet relate to August 11th 1840 and September 11th 2001. Will give the evidence in the following post but will leave with this SOP quote:

"How comes the word that I have declared that New York is to be swept away by a tidal wave? This I have never said. I have said, as I looked at the great buildings going up there, story after story, 'What terrible scenes will take place when the Lord shall arise to shake terribly the earth! Then the words of Revelation 18:1-3 will be fulfilled.' The whole of the eighteenth chapter of Revelation is a warning of what is coming on the earth. But I have no light in particular in regard to what is coming on New York, only that I know that one day the great buildings there will be thrown down by the turning and overturning of God's power. From the light given me, I know that destruction is in the world. One word from the Lord, one touch of his mighty power, and these massive structures will fall. Scenes will take place the fearfulness of which we can not imagine. {RH, July 5, 1906 par. 14}

If you have ever seen or studied the New York skyline, there were only two buildings in all of New York that stood out above and beyond all the other buildings, only two. There are hundreds of buildings in New York, but only two were greater than all the others. And those great buildings came down, and when they came down, Revelation 18:1-3 is fulfilled and what does Revelation 18:1 say? Bible quote:

Revelation 18:1 ¶ And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

So a Heavenly being came down, just like in the time period of Jesus, the time period of the millerites, and now in our time period. And the testing time began.

Last edited by lco; 05/31/10 06:11 AM.
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