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Re: Did Ellen White believe in the Holy Spirit...
[Re: Daryl]
#126758
08/16/10 07:44 PM
08/16/10 07:44 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
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She said about Christ:
“From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father” (p. 19).
"The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, "whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity." Micah 5:2, margin. {p. 469}
“In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. . . . The divinity of Christ is the believer’s assurance of eternal life” (p. 530).
“The Saviour came forth from the grave by the life that was in Himself” (p. 785).
The book included also clear statements about the personhood of the Holy Spirit (which they did not believe):
“Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead” (p. 671).
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Re: Did Ellen White believe in the Holy Spirit...
[Re: Rosangela]
#126865
08/23/10 02:57 PM
08/23/10 02:57 PM
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I assume there are other quotes in DA on the Third Person (Holy Spirit)?
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Re: Did Ellen White believe in the Holy Spirit...
[Re: Daryl]
#154590
08/02/13 10:15 AM
08/02/13 10:15 AM
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The denial of the personality of the Holy Spirit among Adventists appears to growing rapidly. A few years ago when this thread started it seemed like an anomaly but is becoming pervasive, similar to the feast day and 2520 movements. From the several contacts I've had with it, the denial of the person-hood of the Holy Spirit is invariably coupled with the denial of the eternal existence of Christ. The reason for that coupling seems to be that several of our Advent pioneers, excluding Ellen White, held these views initially. From what I've seen they came to a better understanding.
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Re: Did Ellen White believe in the Holy Spirit...
[Re: Charity]
#154591
08/02/13 02:45 PM
08/02/13 02:45 PM
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Posts: 1,195
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The denial of the personality of the Holy Spirit among Adventists appears to growing rapidly. A few years ago when this thread started it seemed like an anomaly but is becoming pervasive The Holy Spirit is many things: 1. Our Father (John 4:24) 2. His only begotten Son (Rev. 2:1 & 2:7; and so for all seven churches) 3. His words of truth (John 6:63) 4. His angels of heaven (Heb. 1:14) Except for #3, which is a metaphor, they are all spirit (not flesh and blood like us) AND are holy. No.3 likens the breath that escapes our mouth, when we speak kind and truthful words to uplift others, to spirit which goes out from us to heal (to give hope and wisdom to) the object of our concern. When Jesus spoke of the Comforter to come, he was not speaking of someone who was absent while he was with the disciples. The Comforter was already present. He said, "you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." (John 14:17) In other words, the Comforter ARE really the angels of God, "ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation." They come in the name of Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:1) and because they are able to reach further than Jesus Christ could have done in his humanity, they are said to be "IN US". They are of God, but not God (Rev. 22:8-9). There are ONLY TWO BEINGS to whom worship is due: God the Father, and His Son with whom He has shared all His glory (Rev. 22:3). No one else!
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Re: Did Ellen White believe in the Holy Spirit...
[Re: James Peterson]
#154638
08/04/13 09:52 PM
08/04/13 09:52 PM
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When Jesus spoke of the Comforter to come, he was not speaking of someone who was absent while he was with the disciples. The Comforter was already present. He said, "you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." (John 14:17) In other words, the Comforter ARE really the angels of God, "ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation." They come in the name of Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:1) and because they are able to reach further than Jesus Christ could have done in his humanity, they are said to be "IN US". They are of God, but not God (Rev. 22:8-9).
There are ONLY TWO BEINGS to whom worship is due: God the Father, and His Son with whom He has shared all His glory (Rev. 22:3). No one else! Brother James, until recently most Adventists, including myself, had not given any thought to whether the Holy Spirit should be worshiped or not. Most of us assumed that He should be. A few years ago, one of my friends who's part of the anti-trinitarian movement within the church said that there is no scriptural mandate to worship the Holy Spirit. That took me by surprise but I studied it and had to agree there is no direct command to worship the Holy Spirit. In stead we're told many times that we should worship the Father and the Son. So I've been grateful ever since for learning that and rather than worshiping the Holy Spirit, I worship the Father and the Son, seeking the infilling of the Holy Spirit who represents them. Another thing I learned from this movement is to place due weight on the Sonship of Christ. Jesus says of Himself that He is the eternal God, the I AM, yet He is also the Son. This is a seeming contradiction but only because we as finite humans can't fully grasp the notion of an eternal being who is also a Son. A son in our minds always has a beginning; Christ is eternal. But scripture says these are both true. We have to accept both ideas by faith. James regarding the angel's being ministering spirits, I agree. The Comforter is the same though, not as the angels but as the Holy Spirit who we've been baptized into at the direction of our Lord. The office of the Holy Spirit is so essential to the plan of salvation that Christ spoke more of Him than any other topic. This is a topic He wants us to understand because it will help us co-operate with the Divine agencies that have been at work in the plan of salvation from the very beginning. The Holy Spirit was present when Christ took counsel with the Father to provide a ransom for man if he should fall. The Holy Spirit was at the cross when Christ died because we're told that it was through the Holy Spirit that Christ offered himself. Heb 9:14. And it's through the present intercession of the Holy Spirit pleading with our spirits that our prayers are sanctified. Romans 8:13-28. Denying the presence and reality of this Third Person results in regression of our understanding of the present work of God and Christ to seal His people in these final moments of the Day of Atonement. I hope you'll reconsider, my friend. Consider carefully the warning of Christ - all sin will be forgiven man but one - the sin against the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12:31. What could be a more direct sin against the Holy Spirit than to deny His very existence?
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Re: Did Ellen White believe in the Holy Spirit...
[Re: Charity]
#154651
08/05/13 04:07 AM
08/05/13 04:07 AM
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NON-SDA
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
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When Jesus spoke of the Comforter to come, he was not speaking of someone who was absent while he was with the disciples. The Comforter was already present. He said, "you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." (John 14:17) In other words, the Comforter ARE really the angels of God, "ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation." They come in the name of Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:1) and because they are able to reach further than Jesus Christ could have done in his humanity, they are said to be "IN US". They are of God, but not God (Rev. 22:8-9).
There are ONLY TWO BEINGS to whom worship is due: God the Father, and His Son with whom He has shared all His glory (Rev. 22:3). No one else! Brother James, until recently most Adventists, including myself, had not given any thought to whether the Holy Spirit should be worshiped or not. Most of us assumed that He should be. A few years ago, one of my friends who's part of the anti-trinitarian movement within the church said that there is no scriptural mandate to worship the Holy Spirit. That took me by surprise but I studied it and had to agree there is no direct command to worship the Holy Spirit. In stead we're told many times that we should worship the Father and the Son. So I've been grateful ever since for learning that and rather than worshiping the Holy Spirit, I worship the Father and the Son, seeking the infilling of the Holy Spirit who represents them. Another thing I learned from this movement is to place due weight on the Sonship of Christ. Jesus says of Himself that He is the eternal God, the I AM, yet He is also the Son. This is a seeming contradiction but only because we as finite humans can't fully grasp the notion of an eternal being who is also a Son. A son in our minds always has a beginning; Christ is eternal. But scripture says these are both true. We have to accept both ideas by faith. James regarding the angel's being ministering spirits, I agree. The Comforter is the same though, not as the angels but as the Holy Spirit who we've been baptized into at the direction of our Lord. The office of the Holy Spirit is so essential to the plan of salvation that Christ spoke more of Him than any other topic. This is a topic He wants us to understand because it will help us co-operate with the Divine agencies that have been at work in the plan of salvation from the very beginning. The Holy Spirit was present when Christ took counsel with the Father to provide a ransom for man if he should fall. The Holy Spirit was at the cross when Christ died because we're told that it was through the Holy Spirit that Christ offered himself. Heb 9:14. And it's through the present intercession of the Holy Spirit pleading with our spirits that our prayers are sanctified. Romans 8:13-28. Denying the presence and reality of this Third Person results in regression of our understanding of the present work of God and Christ to seal His people in these final moments of the Day of Atonement. I hope you'll reconsider, my friend. Consider carefully the warning of Christ - all sin will be forgiven man but one - the sin against the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12:31. What could be a more direct sin against the Holy Spirit than to deny His very existence? The Holy Spirit is many things: 1. Our Father (John 4:24) 2. His only begotten Son (Rev. 2:1 & 2:7; and so for all seven churches) 3. His words of truth (John 6:63) 4. His angels of heaven (Heb. 1:14) The Holy Spirit is a heavenly being, holy and true, not of flesh and blood. Their word is metaphorically spoken of as being spirit as well.
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Re: Did Ellen White believe in the Holy Spirit...
[Re: James Peterson]
#154683
08/06/13 04:32 AM
08/06/13 04:32 AM
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Global Moderator
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The Holy Spirit is many things:
1. Our Father (John 4:24)
2. His only begotten Son (Rev. 2:1 & 2:7; and so for all seven churches)
3. His words of truth (John 6:63)
4. His angels of heaven (Heb. 1:14)
The Holy Spirit is a heavenly being, holy and true, not of flesh and blood. Their word is metaphorically spoken of as being spirit as well.
According to the above the Holy Spirit is simply a composite of all, and not a being at all. I don't agree. EGW definitely says the holy Spirit is a person and scripture characterizes Him as a literal being. He speaks (Acts 8:29) teaches (Luke 12:12) reveals (Luke 2:26) testifies (Acts 20:23) searches (1 Cor. 2:10,11) He sets people apart for service and sends them on their way (Acts 13:2,4) He commands and guides (Acts 8:29) He declares things to come (John 16:13) Romans 8:5 He sets our minds on the things of God Romans 8:13 Through the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the body Romans 15:30 says the Holy Spirit loves. Romans 8:27 Says He has a mind Looking at your texts: John 4:24 which says God is spirit only tells us that God the Father and the Holy spirit are of the same substance. God the Father did not take on humanity, only Christ is encumbered with (glorified) human body. The problem is that modern language puts a meaning to "spirit" (as in no body or substance) that isn't scriptural. Scripture says there are DIFFERENT types of bodies (see 1 Cor. 15) Actually John 4:24 is saying God the Father is an intelligent Being and those who worship Him will worship with intelligence and in truth. Rev. 2:1, 7 Christ speaks to the churches THROUGH the Holy Spirit. It is not saying Christ is the Holy Spirit. Christ gave the words to John, John wrote them down, we read them and the Holy Spirit impresses the truths of those words upon our minds. John 6:63 "spirit" is in small letters. Again it is speaking of the mind - or thinking/believing ability -- it is by believing in Christ that we receive life, His Words are to become part of us for they will bring life. Hebrews 1:14 -- Angels are ministering spirits (each one is a very real, intelligent, individual being) they are NOT the Holy Spirit.
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Re: Did Ellen White believe in the Holy Spirit...
[Re: dedication]
#154684
08/06/13 04:56 AM
08/06/13 04:56 AM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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The Holy Spirit is many things: 1. Our Father (John 4:24) 2. His only begotten Son (Rev. 2:1 & 2:7; and so for all seven churches) 3. His words of truth (John 6:63) 4. His angels of heaven (Heb. 1:14) The Holy Spirit is a heavenly being, holy and true, not of flesh and blood. Their word is metaphorically spoken of as being spirit as well.
According to the above the Holy Spirit is simply a composite of all, and not a being at all.
No. Rather the same term, HOLY SPIRIT, as used in the Bible, could mean one of three BEINGS, or the word of Truth: depending on the context. This is much the same as THE Christ is either Michael, the Angel of the LORD, Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God, the Lamb, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, and so forth: depending on the context. Except that the HOLY SPIRIT refers to different heavenly Beings: sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son, sometimes, the angel of God, or, metaphorically, sometimes the word of Truth. It is like the Prime Minister can refer to Stephen Harper, or Pierre Trudeau, or John MacDonald, etc., etc.: depending on the year. ... ..
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Re: Did Ellen White believe in the Holy Spirit...
[Re: dedication]
#154685
08/06/13 05:07 AM
08/06/13 05:07 AM
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What does the word "another" mean?
When Jesus says,
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
was He talking about Himself, or an essence of Himself? Or about "another"?
This "other" One (another Comforter) will not testify about Himself, (John 16:13) but about Christ. (John 15:26)
Of course there are texts that seem to say it is Christ "coming to us". For the nature of the Godhead is that when ONE of the three is present, all three are present. For they know each others thoughts as if they were their own
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Re: Did Ellen White believe in the Holy Spirit...
[Re: James Peterson]
#154686
08/06/13 05:09 AM
08/06/13 05:09 AM
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Global Moderator
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The Holy Spirit is many things:
... the HOLY SPIRIT refers to different heavenly Beings: sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son, sometimes, the angel of God, or, metaphorically, sometimes the word of Truth. It is like the Prime Minister can refer to Stephen Harper, or Pierre Trudeau, or John MacDonald, etc., etc.: depending on the year.
...
.. So according to your understand there is no Holy Spirit, it only refers to a "job" that can be filled by any heavenly being?
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