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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Daryl] #126765
08/17/10 02:23 PM 08/17/10 02:23 PM

Mountain Man Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rosangela

. . . when you love Christ, sin eventually becomes disgusting.

The Bible and the SOP advocate a different perspective. Both teach that sinners die to sin, self, and Satan the moment they experience the miracle of rebirth. You seem to be advocating that they gradually outgrow sinning, that they eventually learn to sin less and less.

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Mountain Man] #126773
08/17/10 10:43 PM 08/17/10 10:43 PM

Rosangela

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Isn't this what happens? As you grow in the Christian life, in your love for Christ, you learn to depend more on Christ, you learn to appropriate His power to resist temptation, your eyes are more and more opened to the sinfulness of sin, and you fall less and less into temptation, so you sin less and less. Do you disagree?

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Rosangela] #126775
08/18/10 12:07 AM 08/18/10 12:07 AM

Mountain Man Offline

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I'm sorry, but, yes, I disagree. The growth believers experience "in Christ" involves maturing in the fruits of the Spirit from "faith to faith", from "grace to grace", from "glory to glory" "more and more unto the perfect day." Abiding in Christ does not involve gradually sinning less and less. "How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:2. The fact believers fall into sin occasionally is unfortunate; but it doesn't happen while they are actively, aggressively abiding in Jesus. "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not." 1 John 3:6.

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Mountain Man] #126778
08/18/10 05:54 AM 08/18/10 05:54 AM

Tom

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MM, we've had this conversation many times, and I still don't understand why you don't think an understanding of God's character is important. Surely you don't think that at the moment of conversion one doesn't continue to learn about God's character. The point is that as we discover more about the truth, there are things we do that we recognize as sin that at the moment of our conversion would never have even entered into our thought. We grow in our understanding as to who God is as what His will is.

You idea would seem to require instantaneously knowing God and His will extrememly well, or that this doesn't matter.

Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Mountain Man] #126780
08/18/10 11:21 AM 08/18/10 11:21 AM

Rosangela

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Quote:

"How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:2.

OK, but I'm not speaking of cherished sin.

Quote:

The fact believers fall into sin occasionally is unfortunate

It is unfortunate but it does happen, and what I'm saying is that it will happen less and less as you mature in your Christian life.

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Rosangela] #126786
08/18/10 04:06 PM 08/18/10 04:06 PM

Mountain Man Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rosangela

M: "How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:2.

R: OK, but I'm not speaking of cherished sin.

Neither is Paul. He's talking about any and all sin. He doesn't limit it to cherished sin. "In Christ" born-again, converted believers (fully converted to obeying "all things whatsoever" Jesus commanded) do not sin. "Whosoever is born of God doth not sin."

Originally Posted By: Rosangela

M: The fact believers fall into sin occasionally is unfortunate . . .

R: It is unfortunate but it does happen, and what I'm saying is that it will happen less and less as you mature in your Christian life.

Amen! But not while actively, aggressively abiding in Jesus. "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not."

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Tom] #126787
08/18/10 04:16 PM 08/18/10 04:16 PM

Mountain Man Offline

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Originally Posted By: Tom

Even Jesus grew in His knowledge of God's will and character as He aged and matured from childhood to manhood. But, as you know, such growth and maturation did not involve gradually outgrowing sin of any kind (known or unknown). So too, born-again, fully converted believers (living in harmony with "all things whatsoever" Jesus commanded) grow and mature in their knowledge of God's will and character. While they are abiding in Christ they "do not and cannot sin".

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Mountain Man] #126799
08/19/10 05:51 PM 08/19/10 05:51 PM

Mountain Man Offline

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Am I the only person on this forum who believes "whosoever abideth in him sinneth not" (1 JOhn 3:6)?

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Mountain Man] #126806
08/19/10 09:02 PM 08/19/10 09:02 PM

Rosangela

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I believe that while we are abiding in Jesus we do not choose to sin (although it's possible to sin ignorantly). But the problem I'm discussing is that we do not abide in Jesus 100% of the time, and because of that we fall into sin. Therefore, in the Christian life, we learn to fall into sin less and less as we learn to abide in Jesus more and more.

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Rosangela] #126811
08/19/10 11:45 PM 08/19/10 11:45 PM

Mountain Man Offline

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"We learn to fall into sin less and less as we learn to abide in Jesus more and more."

Amen! That's sounds like a quotable quote.

Where in the Bible does it describe born-again and fully converted believers (living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded) abiding in Jesus and not committing any kind of sin - this side of the close of probation?

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