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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN
[Re: Mountain Man]
#126818
08/20/10 10:33 PM
08/20/10 10:33 PM
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Well, the passages I would cyte from the top of my mind about the Christian and sin are: Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death. 1 John 3:6 No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him. But, as to the last passage, its meaning is explained by Robertson: {Sinneth not} (ouc amartanei). Linear present (linear menwn, keeps on abiding) active indicative of amartanw, "does not keep on sinning." For menw (abide) see #2:6; Joh 15:4-10. {Whosoever sinneth} (o amartanwn). Present (linear) active articular participle like menwn above, "the one who keeps on sinning" (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as amarthsav, aorist active participle, would mean). {Hath not seen him} (ouc ewraken auton). Perfect active indicative of oraw. The habit of sin is proof that one has not the vision or the knowledge (egnwken, perfect active also) of Christ. He means, of course, spiritual vision and spiritual knowledge, not the literal sense of oraw in #Joh 1:18; 20:29.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN
[Re: Mountain Man]
#126827
08/21/10 06:13 PM
08/21/10 06:13 PM
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So, you believe believers can live without sinning here and now? If they abide in Jesus 100% of the time. I believe Enoch achieved this experience. I belive the 144,000 will achieve this experience. Regarding 1 John 3:6 are you suggesting it means believers sin while abiding in Jesus? What 1 John 3:6 says is that he who keeps on abiding does not keep on sinning.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN
[Re: Mountain Man]
#126897
08/24/10 11:07 PM
08/24/10 11:07 PM
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Personally, I believe John described the experience of born-again, fully converted people (living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded) abiding in Jesus in the ultimate sense of the word. In such cases, they cannot commit a sin without realizing it, nor can they sin while abiding in Jesus. This seems to be relying upon what appears to me to be a very narrow understanding of what sin entails. That is, it seems to be focused on external behaviors. Just the concept that one cannot commit a sin without realizing it seems to me to imply this. Say you treat your wife in a negative way without recognizing it. This isn't possible? Or, say you misrepresent God in some way because you have misunderstood His character in some way. These examples aren't possible?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN
[Re: Mountain Man]
#126913
08/25/10 07:32 PM
08/25/10 07:32 PM
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Conversely, you seem to be implying "abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded" accommodates (allows for, includes) the sins you named above. No, my point was not to imply this. I was taking issue with your assumptions in interpreting this verse. To answer your questions - No, "abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded" does not include sinning in the ways you named above. Here's what I asked: Just the concept that one cannot commit a sin without realizing it seems to me to imply this. Say you treat your wife in a negative way without recognizing it. This isn't possible? Or, say you misrepresent God in some way because you have misunderstood His character in some way. These examples aren't possible? So you're saying if you are abiding in Jesus Christ, it's not possible for you to unknowingly treat your wife in a negative way, that you might be able to improve, if you had more light? Also, it's not possible for you to misrepresent God in some way because you've misunderstood His character? To put it another way, abiding in Jesus implies, as you see things: 1.That you will treat your wife perfectly. 2.That you perfectly know God's character. (or, at a minimum, whatever lack you have regarding knowing God's character correctly, won't impact how you represent Him to others).
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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