“Sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” (Romans 6:14).

The Memory Text is:

Some interesting questions are also asked in the Sabbath Afternoon section, namely:

1 - If works can’t save us, why bother with them at all?

2 - Why not just keep on sinning?

This week's lesson is supposed to answer the above questions.

1 - If works can’t save us, why bother with them at all?

2 - Why not just keep on sinning?

It is not the fear of punishment, or the hope of everlasting reward, that leads the disciples of Christ to follow Him. They behold the Saviour's matchless love, revealed throughout His pilgrimage on earth, from the manger of Bethlehem to Calvary's cross, and the sight of Him attracts, it softens and subdues the soul. Love awakens in the heart of the beholders. They hear His voice, and they follow Him. (DA 480)

Precisely because we are "free from sin," we have to fight against it. Many have argued that if we are free from sin, we no longer need to fight against it. Paul's idea is the direct opposite to this.He who is not free from sin cannot fight against it, for he is the slave of sin. That which he does serves sin. Only he who, through Christ, has been freed from sin can enter the battle against it; and he, because of his status as a slave of righteousness, is obliged to join in that battle.

It makes me said when I meet people who, with words full of anguish, sorrow and dispair, tell me, "Pastor, I can't live a victorious Christian life." Don't be concerned about living "a victorious Christian life." You must be concerned that you live with Christ - that you pray every day, that you study your Bible every day, that you share your faith. The result of this daily communion with Christ will be a victorious Christian life. You must have peace in your heart, you must know that you have been forgiven, you must know that Christ loves you - this is the first thing you need to know in order to live a victorious Christian life.

With untold love our God has loved us, and our love awakens toward Him as we comprehend something of the length and breadth and depth and height of this love that passeth knowledge. By the revelation of the attractive loveliness of Christ, by the knowledge of His love expressed to us while we were yet sinners, the stubborn heart is melted and subdued,
and the sinner is transformed and becomes a child of heaven. God does not employ compulsory measures; love is the agent which He uses to expel sin from the heart. By it He changes pride into humility, and enmity and unbelief into love and faith. {MB 76.3}

. . . when you love Christ, sin eventually becomes disgusting.

"How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:2.

The fact believers fall into sin occasionally is unfortunate

M: "How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:2.

R: OK, but I'm not speaking of cherished sin.

M: The fact believers fall into sin occasionally is unfortunate . . .

R: It is unfortunate but it does happen, and what I'm saying is that it will happen less and less as you mature in your Christian life.

MM, we've had this conversation many times, and I still don't understand why you don't think an understanding of God's character is important. Surely you don't think that at the moment of conversion one doesn't continue to learn about God's character. The point is that as we discover more about the truth, there are things we do that we recognize as sin that at the moment of our conversion would never have even entered into our thought. We grow in our understanding as to who God is as what His will is.

You idea would seem to require instantaneously knowing God and His will extrememly well, or that this doesn't matter.

{Sinneth not} (ouc amartanei). Linear present (linear menwn, keeps on abiding) active indicative of amartanw, "does not keep on sinning." For menw (abide) see #2:6; Joh 15:4-10. {Whosoever sinneth} (o amartanwn). Present (linear) active articular participle like menwn above, "the one who keeps on sinning" (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as amarthsav, aorist active participle, would mean). {Hath not seen him} (ouc ewraken auton). Perfect active indicative of oraw. The habit of sin is proof that one has not the vision or the knowledge (egnwken, perfect active also) of Christ. He means, of course, spiritual vision and spiritual knowledge, not the literal sense of oraw in #Joh 1:18; 20:29.

So, you believe believers can live without sinning here and now?

Regarding 1 John 3:6 are you suggesting it means believers sin while abiding in Jesus?

What 1 John 3:6 says is that he who keeps on abiding does not keep on sinning.

Personally, I believe John described the experience of born-again, fully converted people (living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded) abiding in Jesus in the ultimate sense of the word. In such cases, they cannot commit a sin without realizing it, nor can they sin while abiding in Jesus.

Conversely, you seem to be implying "abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded" accommodates (allows for, includes) the sins you named above.

To answer your questions - No, "abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded" does not include sinning in the ways you named above.

Just the concept that one cannot commit a sin without realizing it seems to me to imply this. Say you treat your wife in a negative way without recognizing it. This isn't possible? Or, say you misrepresent God in some way because you have misunderstood His character in some way. These examples aren't possible?

So you're saying if you are abiding in Jesus Christ, it's not possible for you to unknowingly treat your wife in a negative way, that you might be able to improve, if you had more light? Also, it's not possible for you to misrepresent God in some way because you've misunderstood His character?

To put it another way, abiding in Jesus implies, as you see things:

1.That you will treat your wife perfectly.
2.That you perfectly know God's character. (or, at a minimum, whatever lack you have regarding knowing God's character correctly, won't impact how you represent Him to others).

1. Yes, while "abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded" people will treat their spouses perfectly.

2. Yes, while "abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded" people know God's character perfectly.

3. However, perfection is not a static state. "Perfecting holiness" will continue throughout eternity. In Christ, people will be more perfect tomorrow than they are today.

Tom, how do you interpret the following insight - "perfecting holiness" (2 Cor 7:1)?

1Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

And, how do you interpret the following insight - "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul."

Through obedience comes sanctification of body, soul, and spirit. This sanctification is a progressive work, and an advance from one stage of perfection to another. {ML 250.4}

I believe Jesus grew in grace and matured more and more in the fruits of the Spirit. He advanced from "one stage of perfection to another." Like a seed, which is perfect at each stage, so too, believers are perfect at each stage. But just because people progress from one stage of perfection to the next it does not mean the previous stage was defective.

M: Tom, how do you interpret the following insight - "perfecting holiness" (2 Cor 7:1)?

T: Here's the NIV: "Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." This seems OK. I didn't look at the Greek to see what the precise translation should be, but will stick with this for now.

M: And, how do you interpret the following insight - "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul."

T: The law is perfect, and it converts the one who mediates upon it, observes it, etc.

"Through obedience comes sanctification of body, soul, and spirit. This sanctification is a progressive work, and an advance from one stage of perfection to another. {ML 250.4}

T: It's clear that if one can progress from one stage of perfection to another that "perfection" here does not imply a lack of ability to improve. So one should be able to improve upon how one treats another."
But does it also imply all previous behavior was imperfect and sinful?

[quote]M: I believe Jesus grew in grace and matured more and more in the fruits of the Spirit. He advanced from "one stage of perfection to another." Like a seed, which is perfect at each stage, so too, believers are perfect at each stage. But just because people progress from one stage of perfection to the next it does not mean the previous stage was defective.

T: This doesn't make sense to me. Jesus was perfect in a different sense. There was nothing He did that could be improved, at any stage of His life. This doesn't apply to us. Or is this your point? Do you believe that once one is born again, one is like Jesus Christ in the sense that as there was nothing He did which could be improved upon, so there is nothing you do which cannot be improved upon? If you don't believe you can improve your view of God's character, then what is your purpose in studying? Just to instruct others?

The Majesty of heaven, the King of glory, became a babe in Bethlehem, and for a time represented the helpless infant in its mother's care. In childhood He spoke and acted as a child, honoring His parents, and carrying out their wishes in helpful ways. But from the first dawning of intelligence He was constantly growing in grace and in a knowledge of truth. {AG 282.2}

M: Tom, how do you interpret the following insight - "perfecting holiness" (2 Cor 7:1)?

T: Here's the NIV: "Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." This seems OK. I didn't look at the Greek to see what the precise translation should be, but will stick with this for now.

Does this mean perfecting holiness involves unperfecting unholiness?

T: This doesn't make sense to me. Jesus was perfect in a different sense. There was nothing He did that could be improved, at any stage of His life. This doesn't apply to us. Or is this your point? Do you believe that once one is born again, one is like Jesus Christ in the sense that as there was nothing He did which could be improved upon, so there is nothing you do which cannot be improved upon? If you don't believe you can improve your view of God's character, then what is your purpose in studying? Just to instruct others?

M:Jesus was, like a seed, perfect at all stages. So, too, believers are, while abiding in Jesus, advancing "from one stage of perfection to another."

The Majesty of heaven, the King of glory, became a babe in Bethlehem, and for a time represented the helpless infant in its mother's care. In childhood He spoke and acted as a child, honoring His parents, and carrying out their wishes in helpful ways. But from the first dawning of intelligence He was constantly growing in grace and in a knowledge of truth. {AG 282.2}

You seem to be suggesting Jesus' knowledge, faith, and experience was just as mature in infancy as it was in adulthood.

M: Tom, how do you interpret the following insight - "perfecting holiness" (2 Cor 7:1)?

T: Here's the NIV: "Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." This seems OK. I didn't look at the Greek to see what the precise translation should be, but will stick with this for now.

M: Does this mean perfecting holiness involves unperfecting unholiness?

T: ?

T: This doesn't make sense to me. Jesus was perfect in a different sense. There was nothing He did that could be improved, at any stage of His life. This doesn't apply to us. Or is this your point? Do you believe that once one is born again, one is like Jesus Christ in the sense that as there was nothing He did which could be improved upon, so there is nothing you do which cannot be improved upon? If you don't believe you can improve your view of God's character, then what is your purpose in studying? Just to instruct others?

M: Jesus was, like a seed, perfect at all stages. So, too, believers are, while abiding in Jesus, advancing "from one stage of perfection to another."

T: You didn't comment on the point I made.

T: There was nothing He did that could be improved, at any stage of His life.

M: You seem to be suggesting Jesus' knowledge, faith, and experience was just as mature in infancy as it was in adulthood.

T: No, I didn't suggest this. Why do you think so?

M: Tom, how do you interpret the following insight - "perfecting holiness" (2 Cor 7:1)?

T: Here's the NIV: "Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." This seems OK. I didn't look at the Greek to see what the precise translation should be, but will stick with this for now.

M: Does this mean perfecting holiness involves unperfecting unholiness?

T: ?

What do you think "perfecting holiness" involves, includes?

T: This doesn't make sense to me. Jesus was perfect in a different sense. There was nothing He did that could be improved, at any stage of His life. This doesn't apply to us. Or is this your point? Do you believe that once one is born again, one is like Jesus Christ in the sense that as there was nothing He did which could be improved upon, so there is nothing you do which cannot be improved upon? If you don't believe you can improve your view of God's character, then what is your purpose in studying? Just to instruct others?

M: Jesus was, like a seed, perfect at all stages. So, too, believers are, while abiding in Jesus, advancing "from one stage of perfection to another."

T: You didn't comment on the point I made.

M:I believe Jesus perfected holiness every day of His life. I don't believe He was as perfect as an infant or child as He was as an adult. He advanced "from one stage of perfection to another." The same thing holds true for believers while they are abiding in Jesus and partaking of the divine nature. They are constantly improving and perfecting holiness, which does not involve, include sinning and repenting.

T: There was nothing He did that could be improved, at any stage of His life.

M: You seem to be suggesting Jesus' knowledge, faith, and experience was just as mature in infancy as it was in adulthood.

T: No, I didn't suggest this. Why do you think so?

M:Because you said so.

"... let us [1] purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, [2] perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." Do you think 1 and 2 above are one and the same thing? That is, does perfecting holiness involve, include gradually becoming less and less sinful? Or, do you think 1 and 2 are two difference processes?

Nothing Jesus did at any point in time could have been improved upon was my point. Do you disagree?

M: "... let us [1] purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, [2] perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." Do you think 1 and 2 above are one and the same thing? That is, does perfecting holiness involve, include gradually becoming less and less sinful? Or, do you think 1 and 2 are two difference processes?

T: I think it's possible for us to sin ignorantly. Do you agree with this? Or do you think that if one abides in Jesus, and has been properly indoctrinated as an SDA, that this is impossible?

T: Also, do you believe that it's impossible for you to improve in your treatment of others? Also, do you believe it's impossible for you to be wrong in regards to ideas that you have about God's character? (given that you are abiding in Jesus) If so, is your purpose in studying on this forum simply to instruct others?

Nothing Jesus did at any point in time could have been improved upon was my point. Do you disagree?

The fact He was more mature the following day proves He improved. "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered."

M: "... let us [1] purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, [2] perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." Do you think 1 and 2 above are one and the same thing? That is, does perfecting holiness involve, include gradually becoming less and less sinful? Or, do you think 1 and 2 are two difference processes?

T: I think it's possible for us to sin ignorantly. Do you agree with this? Or do you think that if one abides in Jesus, and has been properly indoctrinated as an SDA, that this is impossible?

M:You didn't answer my question. I would appreciate an answer. Thank you.

Regarding your question, please provide an example of people abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded while simultaneously sinning without realizing it.

T: Also, do you believe that it's impossible for you to improve in your treatment of others? Also, do you believe it's impossible for you to be wrong in regards to ideas that you have about God's character? (given that you are abiding in Jesus) If so, is your purpose in studying on this forum simply to instruct others?

M:Again, just as Jesus grew, matured, and improved, so too, believers do the same. The growth, maturation, and improvement they experience has nothing to do with becoming less and less sinful or imperfect; instead, it involves advancing "from one stage of perfection to another" like a seed or child unfolding "more and more unto the perfect day."

M: Regarding your question, please provide an example of people abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded while simultaneously sinning without realizing it.

T: I've given two. One is how you treat your spouse, and the other is ignorantly misrepresenting God's character.

M: Again, just as Jesus grew, matured, and improved, so too, believers do the same. The growth, maturation, and improvement they experience has nothing to do with becoming less and less sinful or imperfect; instead, it involves advancing "from one stage of perfection to another" like a seed or child unfolding "more and more unto the perfect day."

T: Again, Jesus was perfect, always. He never sinned. He never had misunderstandings about God's character. He never mistreated people, even ignorantly.

Do you believe people abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded are capable of simultaneously mistreating their spouse and misrepresent the character of God without realizing it?

So you're saying you many not be such a person? That is, this is a hypothetical class of people, of which you are not including yourself?

No, I'm not talking about myself. No, I'm not talking about the 144,000. No, I'm not talking about a hypothetical group. I'm talking about real individuals who are 1) abiding in Jesus, 2) walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, 3) partaking of the divine nature, and 4) living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. I believe there have been individuals like this in every generation since the Fall. I believe they exist today. Do you agree?

PS - Please bear in mind I'm not saying these individuals never neglect to abide in Jesus and sin and repent. What I am saying is that while the conditions specified above are true, they do not and cannot commit a sin (knowingly or unknowingly); instead, they are advancing "from one stage of perfection to another" - from "faith to faith", from "grace to grace", from "glory to glory", not from greater sins to lesser sins until they cease to sin.

Do you believe people abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded are capable of simultaneously mistreating their spouse and misrepresent the character of God without realizing it?

Okay, but do you believe the following type of individuals exist today?

Real individuals who are 1) abiding in Jesus, 2) walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, 3) partaking of the divine nature, and 4) living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded.

Thomas, do you believe no one nowadays is living in perfect harmony with the will of God?

M: No, I'm not talking about myself. No, I'm not talking about the 144,000. No, I'm not talking about a hypothetical group. I'm talking about real individuals who are 1) abiding in Jesus, 2) walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, 3) partaking of the divine nature, and 4) living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. I believe there have been individuals like this in every generation since the Fall. I believe they exist today. Do you agree?

T: It sounds like you're talking about "the few in every generation" that Sister White refers to. If so, yes, I agree with what she said.

M: Please bear in mind I'm not saying these individuals never neglect to abide in Jesus and sin and repent. What I am saying is that while the conditions specified above are true, they do not and cannot commit a sin (knowingly or unknowingly); instead, they are advancing "from one stage of perfection to another" - from "faith to faith", from "grace to grace", from "glory to glory", not from greater sins to lesser sins until they cease to sin.

T: I disagree with this. The "few in every generation" could be committing sins of ignorance. For example, there could be Sunday-keepers in this group, or those who believed in eternal hell, because these truths had not been revealed. I believe these "few in every generation" were consistently living up to all the light they had.

M: Okay, but do you believe the following type of individuals exist today: Real individuals who are 1) abiding in Jesus, 2) walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, 3) partaking of the divine nature, and 4) living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded.

T: Yes, regardless of whether this is defined as you now seem to be thinking, or how I've been taking what you said for the last several years. What about people that aren't a part of these few? Do you think these are all lost?

M: Thomas, do you believe no one nowadays is living in perfect harmony with the will of God?

V: I believe there was only One human who lived in perfect harmony with the will of God. I also believe that there are people living nowadays who live as close to perfect harmony with the will of God as is possible for a fallen but restored people such as the post-redemption believer. I also believe that many of these people are very difficult for adventists to recognise, because they do not worship in SDA churches and have never heard of a creed of 28 fundamental beliefs, and some might not even know anything about the christian religion except they know Christ.

Good point. But I'm also curious if you believe it is possible for someone to so thoroughly cooperate with heavenly agencies that they come to a point where they "cease from sin" (1 Peter 4:1)? Or, do you believe it is impossible to arrive at this state before Jesus returns?

PS - I realize many people believe "cease from sin" must be understood to mean continued sinning and repenting but not continuing in the sin. However, I believe it means, like Jesus, they do not sin either knowingly or knowingly.

T: Yes, regardless of whether this is defined as you now seem to be thinking, or how I've been taking what you said for the last several years. What about people that aren't a part of these few? Do you think these are all lost?

I am convinced that it is impossible for all of those people who focus on avoiding sin.

It remains a possibility that such people who have their full focus on Jesus Christ may have reached this state in the present.

MM, please answer my question. Then, ask me questions. What's happening is I ask you a question, and you ask me 5 back without answering my question.

For your convenience, here's my question:


I'll be happy to address your post after you answer my question.

Thanks.

I realize there are non-SDAs who aren't like them in that they are ignorant of certain truths and are not, therefore, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded (and who are not, by the way, lost so long as they are faithfully living in harmony with everything they believe is true).

That means that both you and I can't be Type 1 people then, correct?

I suppose so.

Wonders which one of you is the Type I?

Neither.

MM, that quote seems to suggest that those abiding in Christ, could sin.

R:Guys, if neither of you are a Type 1, what is your type within Mike's classification?

What the Bible tells me is that there are two types of Christians:
Type 1- The wheat
Type 2- The tares

As to the quote "A few in every generation...", I would say that there are several degrees of Christian maturity and that, perhaps, this is the maximum degree.

A few in every generation from Adam resisted his every artifice and stood forth as noble representatives of what it was in the power of man to do and to be, while Christ should co-operate with human efforts, to help man in overcoming the power of Satan. Enoch and Elijah are the correct representatives of what the race might be through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Satan was greatly disturbed because these noble, holy men were untainted amid the moral pollution surrounding them, perfecting righteous characters, and accounted worthy for translation to heaven. As they had stood forth in moral power, in noble uprightness, overcoming Satan's temptations, he could not bring them under the dominion of death. He triumphed that he had power to overcome Moses with his temptations, and that he could mar his illustrious character and lead him to the sin of taking to himself glory before the people which belonged to God. {Con 26.1}

Tom, Type I people live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. How can it include people, for example, who are not keeping the seventh-day Sabbath?

Type I
SDAs who are 1) abiding in Jesus, 2) walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, 3) partaking of the divine nature, and 4) living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. Please bear in mind I'm not saying these individuals never neglect to abide in Jesus and sin and repent. What I am saying is that while the conditions specified above are true, they do not and cannot commit a sin (knowingly or unknowingly); instead, they are advancing "from one stage of perfection to another" - from "faith to faith", from "grace to grace", from "glory to glory", not from greater sins to lesser sins until they cease to sin.

Type II
SDAs who were properly indoctrinated and are familiar with everything Jesus commanded.

Type III
SDAs who were not thoroughly indoctrinated and are unfamiliar with everything Jesus commanded.

Type IV
Non-SDAs who are unaware of certain truths but are living up to the light they have received.

Type V
Non-Christians who are living in harmony with their conscience and convictions.

EGW says there been a few in every generation that have resisted every artifice of Satan. This isn't something that has to do with knowledge but light. According to the light they had, the resisted the devil at every turn. This isn't something that started in 1844 or thereabouts, but "every generation."

I suppose Type II's are SDA's who are not Type 1's. For type III's, there should be two classifications. Those who have accepted Christ, are are justified by faith, and those who aren't.

There are also Non-Sda's who aren't living up to all the light they have, and non-Christians who aren't doing the same, as well as Sda's who aren't.

The list seems a bit odd. It's not a complete list. Do you think there are any SDA's who are "thoroughly indoctrinated," (not a pleasant term, IMO; sounds like a cult or the military, or something like that) who are not Type I people but are still saved?

There is need of a more thorough preparation on the part of candi-dates for baptism. They are in need of more faithful instruction than has usually been given them. The principles of the Christian life should be made plain to those who have newly come to the truth. . . . The line of demarcation will be plain and distinct between those who love God and keep His commandments, and those who love Him not and disregard His precepts. . . .
Satan does not want anyone to see the necessity of an entire surrender to God. When the soul fails to make this surrender, sin is not forsaken; the appetites and passions are striving for the mastery; temptations con-fuse the conscience, so that true conversion does not take place. If all had a sense of the conflict which each soul must wage with satanic agencies that are seeking to ensnare, entice, and deceive, there would be much more diligent labor for those who are young in the faith. . . .
Baptism is a most sacred and important ordinance, and there should be a thorough understanding as to its meaning. It means repentance for sin, and the entrance upon a new life in Christ Jesus. There should be no undue haste to receive the ordinance. . . . Read to them the teaching of the Bible in regard to conversion. Show what is the fruit of conversion, the evidence that they love God. Show that true conversion is a change of heart, of thoughts and purposes. Evil habits are to be given up. The sins of evil-speaking, of jealousy, of disobedience, are to be put away. A warfare must be waged against every evil trait of character. . . .
The test of discipleship is not brought to bear as closely as it should be upon those who present themselves for baptism. It should be unders-tood whether they are simply taking the name of Seventh-day Advent-ists, or whether they are taking their stand on the Lord’s side, to come out from the world and be separate, and touch not the unclean thing. Be-fore baptism there should be a thorough inquiry as to the experience of the candidates. Let this inquiry be made, not in a cold and distant way, but kindly, tenderly, pointing the new converts to the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Bring the requirements of the gospel to bear upon the candidates for baptism. . . .
All who study the life of Christ and practice His teachings will be-come like Christ. Their influence will be like His. They will reveal soundness of character. As they walk in the humble path of obedience, doing the will of God, they exert an influence that tells for the advance-ment of the cause of God and the healthful purity of His work. In these thoroughly converted souls the world is to have a witness to the sanctifying power of truth upon the human character.
The knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ, expressed in character, is an exaltation above everything that is esteemed in earth or in heaven. It is the very highest education. It is the key that opens the portals of the heavenly city. This knowledge it is God’s purpose that all who put on Christ by baptism shall possess. And it is the duty of God’s servants to set before these souls the privilege of their high calling in Christ Jesus. (6T 91-97)

Also, can one be "thoroughly indoctrinated," yet have wrong views in regards to God's character?

They are Type II people, and, no, they are not in a saved state.