Okay, but do you believe the following type of individuals exist today?

Real individuals who are 1) abiding in Jesus, 2) walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, 3) partaking of the divine nature, and 4) living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded.

Thomas, do you believe no one nowadays is living in perfect harmony with the will of God?

M: No, I'm not talking about myself. No, I'm not talking about the 144,000. No, I'm not talking about a hypothetical group. I'm talking about real individuals who are 1) abiding in Jesus, 2) walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, 3) partaking of the divine nature, and 4) living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. I believe there have been individuals like this in every generation since the Fall. I believe they exist today. Do you agree?

T: It sounds like you're talking about "the few in every generation" that Sister White refers to. If so, yes, I agree with what she said.

M: Please bear in mind I'm not saying these individuals never neglect to abide in Jesus and sin and repent. What I am saying is that while the conditions specified above are true, they do not and cannot commit a sin (knowingly or unknowingly); instead, they are advancing "from one stage of perfection to another" - from "faith to faith", from "grace to grace", from "glory to glory", not from greater sins to lesser sins until they cease to sin.

T: I disagree with this. The "few in every generation" could be committing sins of ignorance. For example, there could be Sunday-keepers in this group, or those who believed in eternal hell, because these truths had not been revealed. I believe these "few in every generation" were consistently living up to all the light they had.

M: Okay, but do you believe the following type of individuals exist today: Real individuals who are 1) abiding in Jesus, 2) walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, 3) partaking of the divine nature, and 4) living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded.

T: Yes, regardless of whether this is defined as you now seem to be thinking, or how I've been taking what you said for the last several years. What about people that aren't a part of these few? Do you think these are all lost?

M: Thomas, do you believe no one nowadays is living in perfect harmony with the will of God?

V: I believe there was only One human who lived in perfect harmony with the will of God. I also believe that there are people living nowadays who live as close to perfect harmony with the will of God as is possible for a fallen but restored people such as the post-redemption believer. I also believe that many of these people are very difficult for adventists to recognise, because they do not worship in SDA churches and have never heard of a creed of 28 fundamental beliefs, and some might not even know anything about the christian religion except they know Christ.

Good point. But I'm also curious if you believe it is possible for someone to so thoroughly cooperate with heavenly agencies that they come to a point where they "cease from sin" (1 Peter 4:1)? Or, do you believe it is impossible to arrive at this state before Jesus returns?

PS - I realize many people believe "cease from sin" must be understood to mean continued sinning and repenting but not continuing in the sin. However, I believe it means, like Jesus, they do not sin either knowingly or knowingly.

T: Yes, regardless of whether this is defined as you now seem to be thinking, or how I've been taking what you said for the last several years. What about people that aren't a part of these few? Do you think these are all lost?

I am convinced that it is impossible for all of those people who focus on avoiding sin.

It remains a possibility that such people who have their full focus on Jesus Christ may have reached this state in the present.

MM, please answer my question. Then, ask me questions. What's happening is I ask you a question, and you ask me 5 back without answering my question.

For your convenience, here's my question:


I'll be happy to address your post after you answer my question.

Thanks.

I realize there are non-SDAs who aren't like them in that they are ignorant of certain truths and are not, therefore, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded (and who are not, by the way, lost so long as they are faithfully living in harmony with everything they believe is true).