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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Mountain Man] #127322
09/03/10 02:32 PM
09/03/10 02:32 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Tom, Type I people are so focused on Jesus that self is lost. This includes dwelling on the lovely traits of God's character.

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Mountain Man] #127329
09/03/10 04:43 PM
09/03/10 04:43 PM
Tom  Offline
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I don't see why a non-SDA couldn't be a Type 1 person, assuming the definition of "the few in every generation" the EGW speaks of. I'd say at the time of the mark of the beast, Type 1 people would be SDA's (or, at least, would know the essential points of the message), but don't see why there couldn't be such people until that point. Actually I don't see why people of other religions couldn't be Type 1 people (by which I mean, not necessarily Christians). What I would see as essential would be being like Daniel, always willing to do God's will (at least, that's all we know of Daniel, from what's been revealed).


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Tom] #127331
09/03/10 10:08 PM
09/03/10 10:08 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Guys, if neither of you are a Type 1, what is your type within Mike's classification?

What the Bible tells me is that there are two types of Christians:
Type 1- The wheat
Type 2- The tares

As to the quote "A few in every generation...", I would say that there are several degrees of Christian maturity and that, perhaps, this is the maximum degree.

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Rosangela] #127342
09/04/10 02:37 AM
09/04/10 02:37 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Tom, Type I people live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. How can it include people, for example, who are not keeping the seventh-day Sabbath?

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Mountain Man] #127343
09/04/10 02:37 AM
09/04/10 02:37 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Rosangela, I listed 5 types of people, where do you place them in your two types?

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Mountain Man] #127346
09/04/10 04:28 AM
09/04/10 04:28 AM
Tom  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ronangela
R:Guys, if neither of you are a Type 1, what is your type within Mike's classification?

What the Bible tells me is that there are two types of Christians:
Type 1- The wheat
Type 2- The tares

As to the quote "A few in every generation...", I would say that there are several degrees of Christian maturity and that, perhaps, this is the maximum degree.


Here's the quote I was thinking of:

Quote:
A few in every generation from Adam resisted his every artifice and stood forth as noble representatives of what it was in the power of man to do and to be, while Christ should co-operate with human efforts, to help man in overcoming the power of Satan. Enoch and Elijah are the correct representatives of what the race might be through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Satan was greatly disturbed because these noble, holy men were untainted amid the moral pollution surrounding them, perfecting righteous characters, and accounted worthy for translation to heaven. As they had stood forth in moral power, in noble uprightness, overcoming Satan's temptations, he could not bring them under the dominion of death. He triumphed that he had power to overcome Moses with his temptations, and that he could mar his illustrious character and lead him to the sin of taking to himself glory before the people which belonged to God. {Con 26.1}


This is what I was considering a Type 1 person.

Regarding the wheat and the tares, the tares aren't Christians.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Tom] #127347
09/04/10 04:43 AM
09/04/10 04:43 AM
Tom  Offline
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Tom, Type I people live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. How can it include people, for example, who are not keeping the seventh-day Sabbath?


EGW says there been a few in every generation that have resisted every artifice of Satan. This isn't something that has to do with knowledge but light. According to the light they had, the resisted the devil at every turn. This isn't something that started in 1844 or thereabouts, but "every generation."


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Mountain Man] #127348
09/04/10 04:49 AM
09/04/10 04:49 AM
Tom  Offline
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Type I
SDAs who are 1) abiding in Jesus, 2) walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, 3) partaking of the divine nature, and 4) living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. Please bear in mind I'm not saying these individuals never neglect to abide in Jesus and sin and repent. What I am saying is that while the conditions specified above are true, they do not and cannot commit a sin (knowingly or unknowingly); instead, they are advancing "from one stage of perfection to another" - from "faith to faith", from "grace to grace", from "glory to glory", not from greater sins to lesser sins until they cease to sin.

Type II
SDAs who were properly indoctrinated and are familiar with everything Jesus commanded.

Type III
SDAs who were not thoroughly indoctrinated and are unfamiliar with everything Jesus commanded.

Type IV
Non-SDAs who are unaware of certain truths but are living up to the light they have received.

Type V
Non-Christians who are living in harmony with their conscience and convictions.


I suppose Type II's are SDA's who are not Type 1's. For type III's, there should be two classifications. Those who have accepted Christ, are are justified by faith, and those who aren't.

There are also Non-Sda's who aren't living up to all the light they have, and non-Christians who aren't doing the same, as well as Sda's who aren't.

The list seems a bit odd. It's not a complete list.

Do you think there are any SDA's who are "thoroughly indoctrinated," (not a pleasant term, IMO; sounds like a cult or the military, or something like that) who are not Type I people but are still saved?

Also, can one be "thoroughly indoctrinated," yet have wrong views in regards to God's character?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Tom] #127359
09/04/10 02:59 PM
09/04/10 02:59 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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Originally Posted By: Tom
Quote:
Tom, Type I people live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. How can it include people, for example, who are not keeping the seventh-day Sabbath?


EGW says there been a few in every generation that have resisted every artifice of Satan. This isn't something that has to do with knowledge but light. According to the light they had, the resisted the devil at every turn. This isn't something that started in 1844 or thereabouts, but "every generation."

The Type I people I described above (for the purpose of discussion) are living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. It obviously cannot include people who are ignorant of some of the things Jesus commanded.

PS - The 5 Types of people I described above was not intended to be an inclusive, exhaustive list. I am differentiating between SDA and non-SDA people for the sole purpose of contrasting them with Type I people.

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Re: Lesson #7 - Victory Over SIN [Re: Tom] #127360
09/04/10 03:14 PM
09/04/10 03:14 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Type I
SDAs who are 1) abiding in Jesus, 2) walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, 3) partaking of the divine nature, and 4) living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. Please bear in mind I'm not saying these individuals never neglect to abide in Jesus and sin and repent. What I am saying is that while the conditions specified above are true, they do not and cannot commit a sin (knowingly or unknowingly); instead, they are advancing "from one stage of perfection to another" - from "faith to faith", from "grace to grace", from "glory to glory", not from greater sins to lesser sins until they cease to sin.

Type II
SDAs who were thoroughly instructed and are not living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded.

Type III
SDAs who were not thoroughly instructed and are unfamiliar with everything Jesus commanded and are living up to the light they have received.

Type IV
Non-SDAs who are unaware of certain truths and are living up to the light they have received.

Type V
Non-Christians who are living in harmony with their conscience and convictions.

Please note that I have edited the list above.

Originally Posted By: Tom
I suppose Type II's are SDA's who are not Type 1's. For type III's, there should be two classifications. Those who have accepted Christ, are are justified by faith, and those who aren't.

True. Type I are unique in that they are living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded.

Originally Posted By: Tom
There are also Non-Sda's who aren't living up to all the light they have, and non-Christians who aren't doing the same, as well as Sda's who aren't.

True.

Originally Posted By: Tom
The list seems a bit odd. It's not a complete list. Do you think there are any SDA's who are "thoroughly indoctrinated," (not a pleasant term, IMO; sounds like a cult or the military, or something like that) who are not Type I people but are still saved?

They are Type II people, and, no, they are not in a saved state. They are lukewarm Laodiceans. regarding be thoroughly instructed (hopefully a more pleasing term) Ellen wrote:

Quote:
There is need of a more thorough preparation on the part of candi-dates for baptism. They are in need of more faithful instruction than has usually been given them. The principles of the Christian life should be made plain to those who have newly come to the truth. . . . The line of demarcation will be plain and distinct between those who love God and keep His commandments, and those who love Him not and disregard His precepts. . . .
Satan does not want anyone to see the necessity of an entire surrender to God. When the soul fails to make this surrender, sin is not forsaken; the appetites and passions are striving for the mastery; temptations con-fuse the conscience, so that true conversion does not take place. If all had a sense of the conflict which each soul must wage with satanic agencies that are seeking to ensnare, entice, and deceive, there would be much more diligent labor for those who are young in the faith. . . .
Baptism is a most sacred and important ordinance, and there should be a thorough understanding as to its meaning. It means repentance for sin, and the entrance upon a new life in Christ Jesus. There should be no undue haste to receive the ordinance. . . . Read to them the teaching of the Bible in regard to conversion. Show what is the fruit of conversion, the evidence that they love God. Show that true conversion is a change of heart, of thoughts and purposes. Evil habits are to be given up. The sins of evil-speaking, of jealousy, of disobedience, are to be put away. A warfare must be waged against every evil trait of character. . . .
The test of discipleship is not brought to bear as closely as it should be upon those who present themselves for baptism. It should be unders-tood whether they are simply taking the name of Seventh-day Advent-ists, or whether they are taking their stand on the Lord’s side, to come out from the world and be separate, and touch not the unclean thing. Be-fore baptism there should be a thorough inquiry as to the experience of the candidates. Let this inquiry be made, not in a cold and distant way, but kindly, tenderly, pointing the new converts to the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Bring the requirements of the gospel to bear upon the candidates for baptism. . . .
All who study the life of Christ and practice His teachings will be-come like Christ. Their influence will be like His. They will reveal soundness of character. As they walk in the humble path of obedience, doing the will of God, they exert an influence that tells for the advance-ment of the cause of God and the healthful purity of His work. In these thoroughly converted souls the world is to have a witness to the sanctifying power of truth upon the human character.
The knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ, expressed in character, is an exaltation above everything that is esteemed in earth or in heaven. It is the very highest education. It is the key that opens the portals of the heavenly city. This knowledge it is God’s purpose that all who put on Christ by baptism shall possess. And it is the duty of God’s servants to set before these souls the privilege of their high calling in Christ Jesus. (6T 91-97)

I agree with the need and counsel to thoroughly instruct people before baptizing them.

Originally Posted By: Tom
Also, can one be "thoroughly indoctrinated," yet have wrong views in regards to God's character?

Not if they are Type I people, which, by the way, are not identical to the "few in every generation" (who may or may not be living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded).

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