M: Also, if final events leading up to the return of Jesus resemble the fall of Jews and Jerusalem in 70 AD it means evil angels will control the inflamed passions of evil people. However, it begs the question - Who will cause the death and destruction portrayed by the seven last plagues? Clearly nothing of the sort happened in 70 AD.

T: According to EGW in GC 614 and GC 36,37, the final plagues *are* like what happened in AD 70. That was her point! She made it in both places, when speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem (where she compared it to the future destruction), and when speaking of the future destruction (where she compared it to the destruction of Jerusalem).

The records of the past,--the long procession of tumults, conflicts, and revolutions, the "battle of the warrior . . . with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood" (Isaiah 9:5),--what are these, in contrast with the terrors of that day when the restraining Spirit of God shall be wholly withdrawn from the wicked, no longer to hold in check the outburst of human passion and satanic wrath! The world will then behold, as never before, the results of Satan's rule. {GC 36.2}

As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old. {GC 614.1}

When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark (Revelation 14:9, 10), will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: "There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image." The sea "became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." And "the rivers and fountains of waters . . . became blood." Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated. The angel of God declares: "Thou art righteous, O Lord, . . . because Thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Revelation 16:2-6. By condemning the people of God to death, they have as truly incurred the guilt of their blood as if it had been shed by their hands. In like manner Christ declared the Jews of His time guilty of all the blood of holy men which had been shed since the days of Abel; for they possessed the same spirit and were seeking to do the same work with these murderers of the prophets. {GC 627.3}

In the plague that follows, power is given to the sun "to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat." Verses 8, 9. The prophets thus describe the condition of the earth at this fearful time: "The land mourneth; . . . because the harvest of the field is perished. . . . All the trees of the field are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men." "The seed is rotten under their clods, the garners are laid desolate. . . . How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture. . . . The rivers of water are dried up, and the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness." "The songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord God: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence." Joel 1:10-12, 17-20; Amos 8:3. {GC 628.1}

The world is soon to be left by the angel of mercy and the seven last plagues are to be poured out. . . . The bolts of God's wrath are soon to fall, and when He shall begin to punish the transgressors there will be no period of respite until the end.--TM 182 (1894). {LDE 238.2}

Mercy's sweet call is now sounding; but it will soon die away. Probation's hour will soon be ended. The seven last plagues will fall, and then those who have chosen the pleasures of the world and rebelled against God, will cry for mercy when there will be none to answer their prayers. But a voice will be heard,--"Thou art weighed in the balance and found wanting." And as they realize that they have no shelter from the dreadful storm of God's wrath, they will plead for one little hour of probation that they may again hear the sweet voice, inviting "every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters." It will then fall upon the ear, in that dreadful hour. "Too late! too late!" "Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded. But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof. I also will laugh at your calamity, I will mock when your fear cometh." {YI, January 1, 1854 par. 5}

Satan was trying his every art to hold them where they were, until the sealing was past, until the covering was drawn over God's people, and they left without a shelter from the burning wrath of God, in the seven last plagues. God has begun to draw this covering over His people, and it will soon be drawn over all who are to have a shelter in the day of slaughter. God will work in power for His people; and Satan will be permitted to work also. {EW 44.2}

At the general conference of believers in the present truth, held at Sutton, Vermont, September, 1850, I was shown that the seven last plagues will be poured out after Jesus leaves the sanctuary. Said the angel, "It is the wrath of God and the Lamb that causes the destruction or death of the wicked. At the voice of God the saints will be mighty and terrible as an army with banners, but they will not then execute the judgment written. The execution of the judgment will be at the close of the one thousand years." {EW 52.1}

Then I saw that the seven last plagues were soon to be poured out upon those who have no shelter; yet the world regarded them no more than they would so many drops of water that were about to fall. I was then made capable of enduring the awful sight of the seven last plagues, the wrath of God. I saw that His anger was dreadful and terrible, and if He should stretch forth His hand, or lift it in anger, the inhabitants of the world would be as though they had never been, or would suffer from incurable sores and withering plagues that would come upon them, and they would find no deliverance, but be destroyed by them. Terror seized me, and I fell upon my face before the angel and begged of him to cause the sight to be removed, to hide it from me, for it was too dreadful. Then I realized, as never before, the importance of searching the Word of God carefully, to know how to escape the plagues which that Word declares shall come on all the ungodly who shall worship the beast and his image and receive his mark in their foreheads or in their hands. It was a great wonder for me that any could transgress the law of God and tread down His holy Sabbath, when such awful threatenings and denunciations were against them. {EW 64.2}

My attention was again directed to the earth. The wicked had been destroyed, and their dead bodies were lying upon its surface. The wrath of God in the seven last plagues had been visited upon the inhabitants of the earth, causing them to gnaw their tongues from pain and to curse God. The false shepherds had been the signal objects of Jehovah's wrath. Their eyes had consumed away in their holes, and their tongues in their mouths, while they stood upon their feet. After the saints had been delivered by the voice of God, the wicked multitude turned their rage upon one another. The earth seemed to be deluged with blood, and dead bodies were from one end of it to the other. {EW 289.3}

Your idea would have God using the principles of Satan's government, causing death and destruction, in order to win the Great Controversy. I don't believe God does this. Instead, I believe God uses the principles of His own government, principles which existed from eternity.

Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble.

I don't think MM thinks that God's punishing is out of character, but that it appears to be out of character.

M: Tom, I don't think there is a natural correlation between God withdrawing His protection and the calamities that befall sinners. For example, the fire that flashed forth and burned alive Nadab and Abihu. And the fire that flashed forth and burned alive the 250 people. And the fire that flashed forth and burned alive the two bands of fifty. I don't know how you explain these events.

T: The exact explanation of the events isn't the important thing, but understanding the principles involved. We know that Satan is the author of sin and all its results. That includes death and destruction. This means that before Satan invented sin, there was no death and destruction. Therefore death and destruction are part and parcel to Satan's kingdom, not God's. Before Satan, these things did not exist, and were not a part of God's government. Your idea would have God using the principles of Satan's government, causing death and destruction, in order to win the Great Controversy. I don't believe God does this. Instead, I believe God uses the principles of His own government, principles which existed from eternity.

M: Principles are derived from studying the facts. Not the other way around. You seem to be hinting Satan caused the fires mentioned above. Is that correct?

T: Here are the facts I laid out:

1.Satan is the author of sin and all its results.
2.That includes death and destruction.
3.This means that before Satan invented sin, there was no death and destruction.
4.Therefore death and destruction are part and parcel to Satan's kingdom, not God's.
5.Before Satan, these things did not exist, and were not a part of God's government.

These are all facts you agree with, right? Because of these facts, and the principles we may derive from these facts, I made the following observation:


So without getting into the specifics of the fire question, I'm stating that God does not use the principles of Satan's government, but of His own.

For example, violence is not of God, and this is not a principle that God uses to accomplish His will. Compelling force is another example. Death and destruction are others. All the things which did not exist before Satan invented sin are things which are not a part of God's government, and are principles which God does not use to govern His government. That's the general principle I'm stating.

If you say that God does do these things, that He maims, and/or tortures, and/or kills, that begs the question as to why God would do these things. Why wouldn't He use the principles of His own government to accomplish His will? Or do you believe that these things, of which Satan is the author (being the author of sin and all its results), are principles of God's government?

The sentence right before the one you quoted says:


"Final trouble" makes clear this is referencing the last plagues. ("final trouble" = "last plagues").

I think MM believes there are things which appear to be out of God's character, such as punishing people (by which I think MM has in mind things like setting them on fire), and this is His "strange act." I think he accepts these things as things that God did (because that's how what He understands inspiration to mean) and that God was right to do them (because God can't be wrong), but these things do appear to be out of character for God, even though they really aren't.

The wrath of God is soon to fall on all the sinful and disobedient, and they will perish in the general conflagration.