In a general sense, what I believe is that sin causes us to believe things about God which are not true, such as that God is out to get us, or is angry at us, that He is sever, and harsh, that He will burn us alive, etc. These false ideas cause us to be terrified by God.

It was Christ who, amid thunder and flame, had proclaimed the law upon Mount Sinai. The glory of God, like devouring fire, rested upon its summit, and the mountain quaked at the presence of the Lord. {MB 45.1}

They behold the faces of the righteous lighted up, and reflecting the image of Jesus. Those who were so eager to destroy the saints could not endure the glory resting upon the delivered ones, and they fell like dead men to the earth. Satan and evil angels fled from the presence of the saints glorified. Their power to annoy them was gone forever. {RH, May 27, 1862 par. 4}

God has interposed to check their rash design. The glory of his presence, like a flame of light, illuminates the tabernacle. All the congregation behold the signal of the Lord. {ST, August 26, 1880 par. 13}

When the divine Presence was manifested upon Sinai, the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire in the sight of all Israel. But when Christ shall come in glory with His holy angels the whole earth shall be ablaze with the terrible light of His presence. "Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before Him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about Him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that He may judge His people." Psalm 50:3, 4. A fiery stream shall issue and come forth from before Him, which shall cause the elements to melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein shall be burned up. "The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel." 2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8. {PP 339.2}

It was indeed a ministration of glory, when, veiled by a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night, the Majesty of heaven led his people through the wilderness; when the symbol of the divine presence covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle; but the blessings and privileges granted to God's people in the present age exceed those bestowed upon ancient Israel. {RH, May 6, 1884 par. 5}

No traces of His recent agony were visible as Jesus stepped forth to meet His betrayer. Standing in advance of His disciples He said, “Whom seek ye?” They answered, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus replied, “I am He.” As these words were spoken, the angel who had lately ministered to Jesus moved between Him and the mob. A divine light illuminated the Saviour’s face, and a dovelike form overshadowed Him. In the presence of this divine glory, the murderous throng could not stand for a moment. They staggered back. Priests, elders, soldiers, and even Judas, fell as dead men to the ground. . . . {CSA 33.11}

May 14, 1851, I saw the beauty and loveliness of Jesus. As I beheld His glory, the thought did not occur to me that I should ever be separated from His presence. I saw a light coming from the glory that encircled the Father, and as it approached near to me, my body trembled and shook like a leaf. I thought that if it should come near me I would be struck out of existence; but the light passed me. {CET 112.1}

Had He appeared with the glory that was His with the Father before the world was, we could not have endured the light of His presence. That we might behold it and not be destroyed, the manifestation of His glory was shrouded. His divinity was veiled with humanity,--the invisible glory in the visible human form. {DA 23.1}

During that long time spent in communion with God, the face of Moses had reflected the glory of the divine Presence; unknown to himself his face shonen with a dazzling light when he descended from the mountain. Such a light illumined the countenance of Stephen when brought before his judges; "and all that sat in the council, looking steadfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel." Acts 6:15. Aaron as well as the people shrank away from Moses, and "they were afraid to come nigh him." Seeing their confusion and terror, but ignorant of the cause, he urged them to come near. He held out to them the pledge of God's reconciliation, and assured them of His restored favor. They perceived in his voice nothing but love and entreaty, and at last one ventured to approach him. Too awed to speak, he silently pointed to the countenance of Moses, and then toward heaven. The great leader understood his meaning. In their conscious guilt, feeling themselves still under the divine displeasure, they could not endure the heavenly light, which, had they been obedient to God, would have filled them with joy. There is fear in guilt. The soul that is free from sin will not wish to hide from the light of heaven. {PP 329.5}

T:Here's what you quoted: "But wherever men came before God while willfully cherishing evil, they were destroyed. At the second advent of Christ the wicked shall be consumed "with the Spirit of His mouth," and destroyed "with the brightness of His coming." 2 Thessalonians 2:8. The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked. {DA 107.4}

Stopped too soon! Continuing: "In the time of John the Baptist, Christ was about to appear as the revealer of the character of God. His very presence would make manifest to men their sin. Only as they were willing to be purged from sin could they enter into fellowship with Him. Only the pure in heart could abide in His presence."

The light of the glory of God is the truth about His character. "Light" = "Truth". "Glory" = "Character." The context makes this clear. Note, Jesus Christ: "(T)he revealer of the character of God." There you go! Not "radiant light" at all, but character!

M:"His very presence" was physical. "Abide in His presence" was physical.

"The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked." It sounds like you believe this statement can be taken to literally mean - "The truth about God's character will slay the wicked." If so, will wicked humans and angels comprehend the truth about God's character until it kills them?

Also, what part does the following fire play as it relates to wicked humans and angels and the truth about God's character:

EGW:"The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life."

M:When did the evil angels choose the service of sin? If you say when they openly rebelled against God, why, then, didn't they also cut themselves off from life? How can they separate from God, choose the service of sin, cut themselves off from life - and continue to live all these years?

MM:Regarding the passage you posted above, please answer the following questions:

1. What does "divinity flashed through humanity" mean to you?

2. What does "indignation on Christ's countenance" mean to you?

3. What does "they realized the import of His words" mean to you?

T:In a general sense, what I believe is that sin causes us to believe things about God which are not true, such as that God is out to get us, or is angry at us, that He is sever, and harsh, that He will burn us alive, etc. These false ideas cause us to be terrified by God.

M:1. Is it the truth or the lies about God that will cause the wicked to suffer and die during the final judgment?

2. How will the wicked learn the truth about God during the final judgment? Will they learn truths they never knew? If so, what?

3. Will evil angels learn truths about God during the final judgment they don't already know? If so, what will they learn?

4. Do you think God will be physically present at the final judgment? If so, what effect will "His very presence" have on the wicked?

5. Will the love of God cause the wicked to reap what they have sown during the final judgment? If so, how?

"By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them. {DA 764.1}

According to the passages above, the light of the glory of God radiating from His presence is literal light.

I saw a light coming from the glory that encircled the Father ...

The glory of God is His character, and to us it is manifest in Christ. It is by beholding Him that we become changed,—by contemplating the character of Christ, learning His lessons, obeying His words. Enlightened by His Spirit, the believer sees no virtue or merit in himself. There is naught but deformity. But he beholds Jesus, and the glory of the Redeemer manifested in His atoning sacrifice, and His justifying righteousness, His fulness of grace, not only to pardon but to sanctify, fills his whole soul with admiration of the holiness and love of God; and in contemplating this goodness and mercy and love, he becomes transformed in character.

Jesus said, “The glory which Thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one as we are one.” On him who receives Christ, the glory of the Lord hath shined, the Sun of Righteousness has arisen, he rises from his low and worldly state, and shines by reflecting the light of Christ’s glory. Thus by looking continually to Jesus, contemplating His beauty, the believer is more and more transformed into the child of light.

“Ye are the light of the world.... Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” “Herein is My Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be My disciples,” God is glorified in His children as they in their character represent Christ. Jesus says, “He that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit.” Good works are the fruit borne upon the Christian tree. It is impossible to be a disciple of Christ and be a fruitless branch. But the good works are wrought by Christ Himself through the human agent. And those who are doers of the words of Christ, will not only impart blessings of the highest order to others, but as they by their likeness and obedience to Christ represent His character, they bring joy to the heart of Christ and to all the holy ones of heaven.(The Present Truth, 12/29/92)

I'm not saying there isn't a physical manifestation of God as light . . .

Do you think it's coincidence that in one sentence it says that The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked, and the next that Christ is the revealer of God's character?

As I've stated many times, I think the only hope of understanding these subjects is to start with Jesus Christ. Ask the question, "What is God like?" and consider the life of Jesus Christ, especially the latter scenes. After having an idea of God's character based on this study, then study these things, and there's a chance of understanding them.

I've been saying this for years, MM, and you've just been reposting the same passages and making the same comments. My opinion hasn't changed. I believe that Jesus Christ is the revelation of God, and that our understanding of God must start with Christ, and be centered in Him.

Primarily it's sin.



The judgment reveals the truth.



They'll see their part in things more clearly than ever before.



Yes. The wicked don't like God, and don't want to be around Him.



Because of sin, the wicked will believe things about God, who is love, which are untrue, which causes them to feel guilt, distress, remorse, etc.



Right.

Do you also agree that the unveiled radiant light of God's physical presence is extremely bright and causes the unshielded wicked to suffer intense discomfort so much so that must they flee from it if they can to avoid being consumed to death? For example: