I am sorry to have to say this Brother Colin and Brother James in such a pointed way, but you prove how little you are motivated by God by these statements.

What about Enoch? What about Elijah?

If you had the Holy Spirit prompting you to write these things you would not overlook these important men of Faith, God would not permit it because they are the FIGUREHEADS of the men to live in the last days.

You should take a step back and look at what you just did here. Men motivated by God do not insist that they are correct in something when they are not.

If Enoch could attain the perfect character of Christ, being only the seventh generation of Adam, then why is it not possible for every generation since? Every time a child is born they have the opportunity to become perfect in Christ. Every time Jesus has been manifested in the heart of a man of God, that man stands PERFECT in Jesus' name before the Father and there is no other way to be perfected!!!!

What about Moses before he sinned, did he not stand in the presence of GOD on the mount? Then again after he repented He was taken up by God to see till the end.

Or John the Revelator, the BELOVED of Christ Jesus, did he not stand before Christ and the Father in the SPIRIT and witness till the end of time under the direct supervision of Holy Angels? You DO NOT KNOW WHAT PERFECTION IS!

Do you know how to become perfect? Jesus said "be ye therefore PERFECT as your Father in heaven is perfect" MATT 5:48. Can you do it? Do you know how?

JESUS is perfect, the only one. His words have creative power in them and to believe every word from His mouth is FAITH, So when He says Be PERFECT, He is speaking the power to become like Him into existence, if you have faith that He will do it.

The fact that you both are addressing this issue without this knowledge is dubious to say the least.

If you are motivated by God you will correct these statements and not argue on the point. I have been prompted and will address other issues that need correcting later after you correct your statements.

The reason the sin of Moses was so grievous was because he attained this perfection of Character then he fell to sin, just like Adam. That is why he did not enter the promised land when they entered, but he was still honored by God, buried with honor by angels because of his deeply felt repentance from his sin, and resurrected three days later like Jesus.

"The confiding love and unselfish devotion manifested in the life and character of John present lessons of untold value to the Christian church. John did not naturally possess the loveliness of character that his later experience revealed. By nature he had serious defects. He was not only proud, self-assertive, and ambitious for honor, but impetuous, and resentful under injury. He and his brother were called “sons of thunder.” Evil temper, the desire for revenge, the spirit of criticism, were all in the beloved disciple. But beneath all this the divine Teacher discerned the ardent, sincere, loving heart. Jesus rebuked this self-seeking, disappointed his ambitions, tested his faith. But He revealed to him that for which his soul longed—the beauty of holiness, the transforming power of love. {AA 539.3}

None need fail of attaining, in his sphere, to perfection of Christian character. By the sacrifice of Christ, provision has been made for the believer to receive all things that pertain to life and godliness. God calls upon us to reach the standard of perfection and places before us the example of Christ’s character. In His humanity, perfected by a life of constant resistance of evil, the Saviour showed that through co-operation with Divinity, human beings may in this life attain to perfection of character. This is God’s assurance to us that we, too, may obtain complete victory. {AA 531.2}

I could quote about one hundred verses like this in both scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy.

"The leaven of truth works a change in the whole man, making the coarse refined, the rough gentle, the selfish generous. By it the impure are cleansed, washed in the blood of the Lamb. Through its life-giving power it brings all there is of mind and soul and strength into harmony with the divine life. Man with his human nature becomes a partaker of divinity. Christ is honored in excellence and perfection of character. As these changes are effected, angels break forth in rapturous song, and God and Christ rejoice over souls fashioned after the divine similitude. {COL 102.3}

This is why it is so important to make sure what you teach is TRUTH!!!

The reason Moses' sin was so grievous, was because it misrepresent the character of God.

You make it sound as if what you just said and the quote from Signs of the times disagrees with what I wrote, but it is the exact same thing I said. The true context of what she said in your quote is that the sin of Moses was after he had attained the perfection of character of Christ. How does this contradict what I wrote?

You need to pray brother.

Moses was a representative of Christ, just like Adam, a representative of HIS perfect character. So when he fell to Sin he misrepresented the character of God. It doesn't matter WHAT the sin was, it only matters that it occurred AFTER he had become the representative of Christ. Do you get it "brother"?

This is the same thing that I wrote put into different words.

I cannot believe you cannot see this, so you must be doing this just to be contradictory.

Seems you are exaggerating this issue.

My statement is concerning a state of life which is perfect and sinless ever since a believer put his faith in Christ.

This I do not believe!

This state might be reach one day, if you successfully maintain a life by faith, without sinning.

But there is no guarantee, for you are human, sinners falling short of the glory of God.

Therefore, Christ is your mediator, when you sin, he will present his holly blood to the Father for washing your sins.

As long he is a mediator of men, there is no guarantee a man might reach perfect sinless state, do you understand? otherwise the believers has no need for a Mediator. Live without sinning or die when you sin.

Therefore, this perfect sinless state is not a TARGET a believer MUST achieve. Never! Moreover a PREREQUISITE to enter heaven and live eternally, this is really against the bible.

Do you still need Christ as your Mediator? Do you still need Christ and His blood to cleanse your sins? If yes, then STOP forcing the idea of perfect sinless state is Christian target and a must as a prerequisite to enter heaven and live eternally.

Was Enoch and Elijah perfect and sinless? If yes, they don't need Christ, they don't need a Savior.

So little was told about Enoch, do you think for the 300 years he live by faith he didn't do a single sin?

The bible said, all men has sinned and fall short of the glory of God. This is for Enoch and Elijah too.

So, they were all justified by their faith! Sinners justified by their faith!

Has they reach the righteous state within self and stand before God in their own righteousness that permitted them to be taken lively into heaven? Or do they stand in Christ righteousness by faith?

Come on brother, where did you get that out of what I wrote? The fact that you don't seem to understand what I was saying means you do not have the same inspiration.

I never, NEVER said they don't need a savior, in fact, the fact that you surmised this is so ludicrous to me I am questioning your motivation again.

OF COURSE THEY HAD A SAVIOR! They had Jesus.

Are you one of those preachers that says the old testament believers did not have Christ?

Gen 5:24 "Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him." This is the state of Christs righteousness that is in perfect harmony with the will of the Father which is available to every generation. Even Adam's son Able had his sacrifice accepted by fire from heaven. Few have reached this level of submission to the will of the father.

If faith is total dependence upon the words that God has given us, either directly or Holy Spirit illuminated scripture, then we better have also the full unadulterated comprehension of His truth, which only comes through the indwelling of the Spirit of God, the Spirit of truth.

Through Holy Spirit led faith, Enoch walked through the eastern gate that Adam was escorted out of; the gate that Adam also set up the first altar in front of. Fire would come through the heavens and consume that sacrifice every time he was in harmony with the will of God, if there was something he did not follow through with, he left his sacrifice on the altar and went to finish God's work. This is complete submission to the will of the Father which is being in His presence.

I do agree that just before Jesus comes again, it is prophesied that the people of God will receive the latter rain and they will see more and experience things that are very similar to what Christ went through, and this will grant them rewards in heaven that no one else will be given. They get to follow Jesus forever. This is the 144,000.

So there is an advancement of the knowledge of Christ, till the very end. But that does not mean that the people who experienced Christ in the old testament were not standing perfect in the name of Christ before the Father. In fact it seems to me that it would be more faithful for those who lived before Christ, since they had to believe He was going to come before before the evidence was fulfilled.

Before the flood there was no excuse not to believe because the gate could be seen by human eyes, the glory of God spilled out of that gate guarded by a mighty angel. The angel was told to let Enoch pass, because he had done everything God wanted Him to. He ran the race and passed through the finish line, the Eastern Gate.

The eastern gate of earthly Jerusalem is a scale model of the heavenly, and this is the place Jesus chose as His favorite spot to pray and talk with His Father. It is also where He was 'cut off' from the Father and sweat blood, dying the second death for the believers. This happened in Gethsemane, outside the Golden or Eastern Gate across the brook Kidron in the valey of the Shadow of Death, also known as the Valley of Jehoshaphat and the Kidron, Cedron or Kedron Valley.

Do a word search on these and see many things. The gate is our goal and there is only one way through.