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Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134013
06/02/11 02:58 AM
06/02/11 02:58 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
That would appear inconsistent with the Biblical system, Rosangela, to presume that only a bachelor brother would be involved. First of all, the inheritance would have meant little to the brother in this case if he had had no sons already to inherit it. There was nothing for him to inherit himself, as the portion belonging to his deceased brother would have stayed with his widow. It would only be redivided upon her death, and could then be divvied out to the next generation (via his own property distribution). For him to inherit it would have been meaningless if it could not have been passed to his children (i.e. if he had no children to inherit it). Property always stayed in the family, but if there was no one left in the family to inherit it, it would go further up the tree, to the parents, tribe and/or nearest of kin.

tsk, tsk...
GC, a woman would only inherited something from her father (not from her father-in-law), and only if she had no husband, and only in special cases and after all the men in the family had already received their share.
Onan's brother was the firstborn. Since he died, Onan would inherit the double share - but ONLY if his brother had left no heir. If he had had a son with the widow, the child would have been considered an heir of the deceased brother, and the double share would go to the child.
If he didn't give a child to the widow, the inheritance would go to him. After his father died and he had already got the inheritance, he could have a child of his own.
Last but not least, he could have opted for not marrying the widow, but by marrying her he would prevent his other brother from marrying her and giving her an heir.


Rosangela,

I'm not sure how you can see fit to reason it this way. It is obvious that if Onan could not be polygamous, and he would choose to marry the widow to keep her from being married and having an heir by the younger brother, that Onan would have been extremely myopic. It would mean he could never have a child of his own!

That is why he would not have any inheritance to pass along to his progeny--because with no progeny, said inheritance automatically reverts back up the line.

Besides, what a way to live...having no son to care for him in his old age? How short-sighted that would be!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134015
06/02/11 03:04 AM
06/02/11 03:04 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Rosangela, what about those "adulterers" who made faith's hall of fame?

GC, I've already answered your question. The Bible is clear that "the times of ignorance God overlooked." That's the only reason why they were saved. The problem is, some of them not only had more than one wife, but they had concubines, too. Do you consider concubinage OK, too?


I don't think I understand the "concubinage" enough to say whether or not it was "ok." What I do understand is that "sexual relations" and "marital relations" are alike in God's sight. If one has sexual intercourse with someone else, it is an act of marriage. To God, the two are thereafter husband and wife, even if they have not had a special piece of paper notarized by a judge or notary public. smile (I'm not sure whom it might be in your country.)

The Bible tells us this: "What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh." (1 Corinthians 6:16)

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134016
06/02/11 03:07 AM
06/02/11 03:07 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Rosangela,

Do you think God would give laws governing our sins because we were ignorant? Like telling us how to sin fairly?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134030
06/02/11 01:11 PM
06/02/11 01:11 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
GC: If the Bible taught what you are asking it to teach (it doesn't), the following Godly men would all have been "adulterers."
Abraham
Jacob
Elkanah
David
Solomon

k: Thinking of at least David, what about murderers, a man after God's own heart? Does that mean murderers go to heaven or David won't be in heaven?

GC: Thankfully, there is forgiveness for even the worst of sins. David repented. He did not continue being a murderer.

But if polygamy is adultery, those polygamists in the lists were adulterers to their dying days, without ever having repented of its "evil." Therein lies a fundamental difference.

So why do you object if he was an adulterer or not? Cannot adulterers be forgiven the same as murderers? Or do you suggest that he murder the one he committed adultery with so that he would no longer be one?

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134037
06/02/11 03:12 PM
06/02/11 03:12 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
I agree polygamy and adultery are not one and the same sin.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134039
06/02/11 03:26 PM
06/02/11 03:26 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
I'm not sure how you can see fit to reason it this way. It is obvious that if Onan could not be polygamous, and he would choose to marry the widow to keep her from being married and having an heir by the younger brother, that Onan would have been extremely myopic. It would mean he could never have a child of his own!

That is why he would not have any inheritance to pass along to his progeny--because with no progeny, said inheritance automatically reverts back up the line.

Besides, what a way to live...having no son to care for him in his old age? How short-sighted that would be!

GC, you must have missed what I said about this:

<<After his father died and he had already got the inheritance, he could have a child of his own.>>

All he had to do was to wait until he got his hands on the money. After that he could have as many children as he wished.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134040
06/02/11 03:31 PM
06/02/11 03:31 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Quote:
GC, I've already answered your question. The Bible is clear that "the times of ignorance God overlooked." That's the only reason why they were saved. The problem is, some of them not only had more than one wife, but they had concubines, too. Do you consider concubinage OK, too?

I don't think I understand the "concubinage" enough to say whether or not it was "ok." What I do understand is that "sexual relations" and "marital relations" are alike in God's sight. If one has sexual intercourse with someone else, it is an act of marriage. To God, the two are thereafter husband and wife, even if they have not had a special piece of paper notarized by a judge or notary public.

Would it be OK for the men who made faith's hall of fame to go to a prostitute?

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134041
06/02/11 03:40 PM
06/02/11 03:40 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Do you think God would give laws governing our sins because we were ignorant? Like telling us how to sin fairly?

GC, certainly there were already polygamous marriages and slaves among the israelites when they left Egypt, and laws were made in order to lessen or minimize the evils caused by these ancient customs.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134044
06/02/11 03:54 PM
06/02/11 03:54 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
GC, you must have missed what I said about this:

<<After his father died and he had already got the inheritance, he could have a child of his own.>>

All he had to do was to wait until he got his hands on the money. After that he could have as many children as he wished.

Rosangela,

That still makes no sense to me. If he had children by his brother's wife, would it matter when that happened? Those children would automatically become the heirs of his brother's estate. The only way for him to have all the children he wanted to and this not be the case would be to have those children by a different wife.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134047
06/02/11 03:58 PM
06/02/11 03:58 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Would it be OK for the men who made faith's hall of fame to go to a prostitute?
Not necessarily. But to sleep with her is to marry her according to the Bible. So what happens if you are already married? I guess you just picked up another wife in that case.

There is simply no prohibition on polygamy in the Bible. Find me even one text that declares it to be a sin.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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