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Re: "All need to understand the Process of Conversion." FLB 139. #13441
05/05/05 04:27 PM
05/05/05 04:27 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Ikan, I like how you described the miraculous nature of the thief's conversion. He embarked upon the process of conversion, of course, when he first encountered Jesus. His conscience was pricked, but he denied the testimony of the Spirit and stepped up his perilous path fighting against the hated Romans, and fighting against his pricking conscience. But all the while he was being drawn to Jesus.

DA 749, 750
To Jesus in His agony on the cross there came one gleam of comfort. It was the prayer of the penitent thief. Both the men who were crucified with Jesus had at first railed upon Him; and one under his suffering only became more desperate and defiant. But not so with his companion. This man was not a hardened criminal; he had been led astray by evil associations, but he was less guilty than many of those who stood beside the cross reviling the Saviour. He had seen and heard Jesus, and had been convicted by His teaching, but he had been turned away from Him by the priests and rulers. Seeking to stifle conviction, he had plunged deeper and deeper into sin, until he was arrested, tried as a criminal, and condemned to die on the cross. In the judgment hall and on the way to Calvary he had been in company with Jesus. He had heard Pilate declare, "I find no fault in Him." John 19:4. He had marked His godlike bearing, and His pitying forgiveness of His tormentors. On the cross he sees the many great religionists shoot out the tongue with scorn, and ridicule the Lord Jesus. He sees the wagging heads. He hears the upbraiding speeches taken up by his companion in guilt: "If Thou be Christ, save Thyself and us." Among the passers-by he hears many defending Jesus. He hears them repeat His words, and tell of His works. The conviction comes back to him that this is the Christ. Turning to his fellow criminal he says, "Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?" The dying thieves have no longer anything to fear from man. But upon one of them presses the conviction that there is a God to fear, a future to cause him to tremble. And now, all sin-polluted as it is, his life history is about to close. "And we indeed justly," he moans; "for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this Man hath done nothing amiss." {DA 749.3}

There is no question now. There are no doubts, no reproaches. When condemned for his crime, the thief had become hopeless and despairing; but strange, tender thoughts now spring up. He calls to mind all he has heard of Jesus, how He has healed the sick and pardoned sin. He has heard the words of those who believed in Jesus and followed Him weeping. He has seen and read the title above the Saviour's head. He has heard the passers-by repeat it, some with grieved, quivering lips, others with jesting and mockery. The Holy Spirit illuminates his mind, and little by little the chain of evidence is joined together. In Jesus, bruised, mocked, and hanging upon the cross, he sees the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world. Hope is mingled with anguish in his voice as the helpless, dying soul casts himself upon a dying Saviour. "Lord, remember me," he cries, "when Thou comest into Thy kingdom." {DA 750.1}

Quickly the answer came. Soft and melodious the tone, full of love, compassion, and power the words: Verily I say unto thee today, Thou shalt be with Me in paradise. {DA 750.2}

The thief experienced the process of conversion just like Jesus described it to Nicodemus:

DA 172
The wind is heard among the branches of the trees, rustling the leaves and flowers; yet it is invisible, and no man knows whence it comes or whither it goes. So with the work of the Holy Spirit upon the heart. It can no more be explained than can the movements of the wind. A person may not be able to tell the exact time or place, or to trace all the circumstances in the process of conversion; but this does not prove him to be unconverted. By an agency as unseen as the wind, Christ is constantly working upon the heart. Little by little, perhaps unconsciously to the receiver, impressions are made that tend to draw the soul to Christ. These may be received through meditating upon Him, through reading the Scriptures, or through hearing the word from the living preacher. Suddenly, as the Spirit comes with more direct appeal, the soul gladly surrenders itself to Jesus. By many this is called sudden conversion; but it is the result of long wooing by the Spirit of God,--a patient, protracted process. {DA 172.3}

Re: "All need to understand the Process of Conversion." FLB 139. #13442
05/05/05 04:44 PM
05/05/05 04:44 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
quote:
How does the teaching about imputed and imparted righteousness fit into this subject of character defects?

"The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted. The first is our title to heaven, the second is our fitness for heaven."

Here's how Sister White further defines the relationship between the two:

“No one can believe with the heart unto righteousness, and obtain justification by faith, while continuing the practice of those things which the Word of God forbids, or while neglecting any known duty.” (1 SM 396)

“Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification.” (7 BC 908)

“God requires the entire surrender of the heart, before justification can take place; and in order for man to retain justification, there must be continual obedience, through active, living faith that works by love and purifies the soul.” (FW 100)

We are not justified until we confess and forsake our defective traits of character, which are revealed, in the context of the cross, during the process of conversion. The thief on the cross, a case in point, completed the process of conversion on the cross, however, as Ikan pointed out, he didn't have time or opportunity to nurture the righteous traits of character God implanted within him. But, people are saved based on their "title" to heaven, not their "fitness" for heaven.

Newborn babes and fully developed, well seasoned soldiers of the cross, are saved based on the same thing, namely, their "title" to heaven. Other than maturation there is no difference between newborn babes and seasoned soldiers. Both start off the same way - without their former defective traits of charcter. Jesus will not change or remove even one defective trait of character when He returns, which is why we are born again without them (i.e., in case we die the moment we are born again, like the thief on the cross).

Re: "All need to understand the Process of Conversion." FLB 139. #13443
05/06/05 05:12 AM
05/06/05 05:12 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I think of a defective character as a character which has defects. For example, if one view God's character in a false light and presented it that way, that would be a defect of character. One can have defects in one character without being aware of it.

A defect is an imperfection or blemish. Character has to do with one's feelings, thoughts, words and actions. So if one habitually speaks, thinks and acts imperfectly, that's a defect of character.

Regarding the other point or points you wanted me to respond to, I don't know what they are.

Re: "All need to understand the Process of Conversion." FLB 139. #13444
05/06/05 09:06 AM
05/06/05 09:06 AM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
The ministers are not to carry into their sacred office their own defective spirits and faulty characters; for in all things they are to fulfill the word, and be found approving themselves "as the ministers of God." {RH, November 20, 1894 par. 2}

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