HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donors.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
MrAbdullaQodiriy, ByronS, TruthinTypes, LoveGodsWord, Freth
1316 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,061
Posts193,406
Members1,316
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Daryl 13
Karen Y 13
Kevin H 11
Rick H 10
February
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28
Member Spotlight
Kevin H
Kevin H
New York
Posts: 550
Joined: November 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
7 registered members (dedication, ProdigalOne, Kevin H, Karen Y, bill54, 2 invisible), 971 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 9 of 16 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 15 16
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134472
06/13/11 11:52 PM
06/13/11 11:52 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Rosangela has yet to build a supportable case for polygamy constituting adultery according to the Bible. The fact is, as has been pointed out before, so long as the wives are not stolen from other men, and so long as the man has married them, marriage makes their relations licit. It cannot be adultery.

GC, for you to build your case that polygamy does not constitute adultery, you have to believe that God is a respecter of persons and that He has double standards in relation to men and women. You are free to believe that. I don't buy it. There is not a law for men and a law for women. The same law will judge both.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134473
06/13/11 11:59 PM
06/13/11 11:59 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Jacob and his wives...never so much as a hint in the Bible that they should be stoned. Ditto for each and every case of polygamy in the Bible. Not even Jesus hinted at stoning of polygamists.

Polygamy no longer existed in Israel at Jesus' time. Besides, Jesus didn't even stone someone who was an adulterer according to your standards.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134478
06/14/11 12:32 AM
06/14/11 12:32 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Rosangela has yet to build a supportable case for polygamy constituting adultery according to the Bible. The fact is, as has been pointed out before, so long as the wives are not stolen from other men, and so long as the man has married them, marriage makes their relations licit. It cannot be adultery.

GC, for you to build your case that polygamy does not constitute adultery, you have to believe that God is a respecter of persons and that He has double standards in relation to men and women. You are free to believe that. I don't buy it. There is not a law for men and a law for women. The same law will judge both.


Rosangela,

I recommend you hide your eyes while reading certain parts of the Bible that you perhaps haven't yet read. It will help you be able to preserve your view. (For example, don't read Leviticus chapter 27.)

It's a bit like hiding one's eyes while seeing the butterfly drinking the "succulent" juices found in the middle of the fresh cow pie. It is so much nicer to have the warm-fuzzy feelings of believing that butterflies only drink sweet nectar from pretty flowers.

As for me, I do not believe that God has double standards. I just believe that God does not see things always as we do. He puts great importance on some distinctions that we may not understand. Some of those distinctions involve gender differences of roles, authority, dress, and respect. Sexual behavior is also outlined. There is no such thing mentioned in all of the Bible as rape of a man. Should I be crying "foul!" for this? Should I be saying that this is not fair, or that it is a "double standard?" No. Difference does not equate to double standard. If it did, I guess God did wrong to make men and women different.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134480
06/14/11 12:36 AM
06/14/11 12:36 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
There is no such thing mentioned in all of the Bible as rape of a man.

So raping a woman is a sin but raping a man isn't? Is this your view about what God thinks?

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134482
06/14/11 12:49 AM
06/14/11 12:49 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
There is no such thing mentioned in all of the Bible as rape of a man.

So raping a woman is a sin but raping a man isn't? Is this your view about what God thinks?

I didn't say that. But does it not seem like a double standard, to your view, for men to not have mention of equal rights and protections as are given for women?

I know men who have been raped. They end up hiding it. It can be more humiliating for them than it may be for women, because society hardly speaks of such, nor addresses it.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134484
06/14/11 04:54 AM
06/14/11 04:54 AM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
As I Theologically understand it, there is a most tangible reason why the OT was so “patriarchal”, favoring the man over the woman in many things, way beyond physical reasons. And that is the factual reasons that it was the woman who led man into sin. 1 Tim 2:14 reflects this notion by saying that Eve allowed herself to be deceived/seduced(with the Serpent’s empty words - Eph 5:6) into disobeying God. (Gen 3:13) Adam on the other hand was later acting mainly because he tangibly saw nothing wrong in what Eve had done. So his sin had more tangible “reason” to than Eve’s who had allowed herself to be purely “ideally” sway. Adam also acted in love and loyalty to Eve. (PP 55, 56). So God’s distinctive curses on the Woman (Gen 3:16) and the Man (vss. 17-19) were reflective of this theological/historical fact. That is e.g, why, women could not function as priests. That fall-derived distinction remained until Jesus made all things even at the Cross. (Gal 3:28)

So OT Laws indeed reflected that OT/Old Covenant reality, even OT-atoning necessity. God always has a tangible and just reason for what He does or allows.

And to emphasize what was already expressed, if God considered polygamy/bigamy to be adultery then, just like in Lev 20:10, He would have straightly said in Deut 21:15ff:

‘“If a man has two wives” (i.e., marries a second wife while married to a first, even if she is not “another man’s wife”), that is “adultery”, and they both, “the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”’


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: NJK Project] #134495
06/14/11 01:13 PM
06/14/11 01:13 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
As for me, I do not believe that God has double standards. I just believe that God does not see things always as we do. He puts great importance on some distinctions that we may not understand. Some of those distinctions involve gender differences of roles, authority, dress, and respect. Sexual behavior is also outlined. There is no such thing mentioned in all of the Bible as rape of a man. Should I be crying "foul!" for this? Should I be saying that this is not fair, or that it is a "double standard?" No. Difference does not equate to double standard. If it did, I guess God did wrong to make men and women different.

God must be understood by human beings. Therefore, He sometimes expresses Himself, or gives His laws, in such a way as to be best understood by people, in a certain generation, who possess a given mental frame.

I like the thought Paul Buchheight expresses here:

Quote:
Mental frames are the biased and limited way in which information is perceived or understood. Because the human brain is inherently biased and limited, we are always in some mental frame. That frame determines how we relate to and understand reality. As far as you can tell, that frame is reality.
http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2007/04/whose-reality-are-you-living-in-whose.html


God knows that. That's why, for instance, He condescended to enter into a covenant with Abraham employing such forms as were customary among men, at that time, for the ratification of a solemn engagement, and the divine presence passed among severed animals. God wouldn't employ the same forms today.

That's why, also, He tolerated some sinful customs which men didn't see at that time as sins, like polygamy and slavery.

This doesn't mean at all that these things weren't sins. God's moral standards do not change. So the argument of silence is not a valid one. The Bible says nothing about the raping of men and children being a sin, but of course we can infer this from the 7th commandment and from the fact that God specified the raping of a woman as a sin. The same is true about polygamy. If God specified polyandry as a sin, the same is true about polygamy. God's moral standards are the same for men and women. God's standards for both sexes have always been the same - despite the fact that this hasn't always been true in the mental frame of society. This is Ellen White's position, and mine, too.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134497
06/14/11 01:46 PM
06/14/11 01:46 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Rosangela,

For some of my "mental frame" on this topic, please see this post.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134498
06/14/11 02:32 PM
06/14/11 02:32 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
GC, I was referring to the mental frame of the OT polygamists. My point was that polygamy was adultery at that time, as it is today. However, God tolerated it because, according to the mental frame of society at that time, it wasn't adultery, and so it wasn't a sin. I understand you disagree with this view.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134500
06/14/11 03:20 PM
06/14/11 03:20 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Rosangela,

If you have some scripture behind your allegation that polygamy in the Bible constituted "adultery," I would like to see it. So far, you have not provided any support for this.

Polygamy may well have been a sin. I would not dispute that. But sins have various names based on their categories. Some sins are more grievous than others. Adultery and polygamy are in two separate categories, according to the Bible.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Page 9 of 16 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 15 16

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Why Bible Believers Should Oppose Vaccines
by dedication. 01/31/23 06:11 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by dedication. 01/31/23 03:32 AM
Secondary or Dual fulfillment of Prophecy
by Kevin H. 01/30/23 08:17 PM
The King of the North
by dedication. 01/30/23 05:44 PM
1st Quarter 2023 Managing for the Master
by dedication. 01/30/23 12:49 PM
Characteristics of true revival and reformation
by dedication. 01/27/23 07:38 PM
Angels with an URGENT MESSAGE
by dedication. 01/27/23 12:00 AM
Where Do You Obtain Health Supplements?
by dedication. 01/26/23 04:33 AM
What is spiritual blindness?
by dedication. 01/22/23 04:13 PM
Who are the twenty four elders of Revelation?
by Kevin H. 01/20/23 10:52 PM
Who is the beast of Rev. 11:7 ?
by dedication. 01/13/23 04:57 AM
Hurricane Fiona in Eastern Canada
by dedication. 01/02/23 08:23 PM
4th Quarter 2022 Future Hope
by Daryl. 01/02/23 10:00 AM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
The Fifth Column in the church.
by ProdigalOne. 01/31/23 01:33 PM
While You Were Asleep
by ProdigalOne. 01/25/23 05:12 AM
A campaign against the church
by dedication. 01/24/23 04:59 PM
Pope Francis Is in Control
by Wendell Slattery. 01/07/23 04:25 AM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1