HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums & Chat Rooms
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
Knowreason, Jeff Wickham, michaeljav, Nrothe, Theophilus
1300 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics8,849
Posts190,239
Members1,300
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
kland 54
Rick H 48
APL 21
Daryl 20
April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30
Member Spotlight
ProdigalOne
ProdigalOne
Alberta, Canada
Posts: 812
Joined: June 2015
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
12 registered members (D R, Daryl, dedication, Wendell Slattery, Theophilus, ProdigalOne, Karen Y, 5 invisible), 759 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 14 of 14 1 2 12 13 14
Re: Is Adventism absolutely Arminian (Free will)? [Re: cephalopod] #134950
07/04/11 11:38 AM
07/04/11 11:38 AM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: cephalopod
Provided he remained loyal to his loyality just as SOP stated...
...He could have chosen to sin in heaven as easily as he could have on earth in human flesh.


I rather still see that (a) Christ Divinity then was still underived and unborrowed, thus outrightly His and (b) the SOP does not makes this conditionality statement for the pre-Incarnate Jesus.


Originally Posted By: cephalopod
Had Christ "sinned" it was the identity of the pre-Incarnate Michael that would have ceased to exist...
...The human flesh of Michael was just a husk - no big deal.
...Sister White was explicit that whatever it was that was Michael prior to Incarnation.
...Was what Risked it's "Future" eternal existence.


Who says Michael had “human flesh”. As I understand it, though He may have had a concrete physical form (cf. EW 77.1 & 54.2)), it was still of the same Divine substance as the Father’s. That’s what He entirely eternally sacrificed on the Cross and now, at best, has the form of a Mighty Angel, an upgrade from His post resurrection, Human-only, Incarnate form.

Quote:
NJK: John 3:16 says “gave” (#1325) not “sent” (#3992). The “send” in vs. 17 (#649) has the notion of commissioned as in the mission of an apostle.

cephalopod: I meant to say 1 John 4:9....
...Which does say "SENT".


It does but that “Sent” is the same as in the one in John 3:l7 mentioned above, thus also distinctly meaning “commissioned”. It focuses more on the mandate than on the action. Nothing here involving Christ’s nature, but rather what Jesus was supposed to accomplish while on earth as He repeatedly indicated (e.g, John 5:19, 20; 8:28; Heb 10:7, 9)

Originally Posted By: NJK

-If a Divine Being sins they indeed are susceptible to death.


Originally Posted By: cephalopod
A Divine Being that's Devine due to conferred deity being given to them....
...Sister White said it would be impossible for Diety to sink and die.
...But absolutely possible for Michael the archangel to sink and die.


You patently wrongly conflately state what EGW actually said with what you think she said. I personally do not see any explicit, nor even implicit, SOP support for your posited/purported ‘Michael vs. Deity’ claim here, nor also, as already stated, your related “conferred”, actually, to me, mere hypothesis, at best.

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
In ancient times God spoke through the apostles and prophets ( the Bible )....
...In Sister White's times God spoke to the people via Sister White.
...Who had more visions than ALL the people mentioned in the so called Bible put together.
...That's a fact many in the SDA church are now trying to push under the carpet.


You can (re)read my understanding on why EGW needed to have more visions in this previous response (Post #130939) to this claim of yours, (as well as other restated ones).

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
Her actual writings were inspired, the human agencies pushing "corrected paper-work to Sister White were not....


She was the one who had asked them to review and (suggestively) provide any deemed improvements, which they did and she then chose whether to go by them or not. She also made many of those later edits herself. And as those came after her first draft and were indeed corrections in many cases and/or additions for what should have been said, it still sinks your “Sock Puppet” verbal inspiration view as this implies that God was both erroneous and deficient the first time around. You seem quite willing to sacrifice a lot to uphold your view of EGW. I.e., the “Word of God” and now, effectively the inerrant God Himself. That’s not Biblical to say the least.

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
...And I don't think Sister White signing off on things was absolutely inspired either.


What are you saying here... EGW was not under the guidance of God’s Spirit when selecting what is best for her writings??! That goes against what she says for such third party contribution selective matters, as she did when selecting things from other non-SDA authors.

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
...Which is why I've taken pains to get 1st edition works of Sister White.


You are therefore keyly missing out onher many significant improvements (Pro 20:6) E.g., as explained in here, Jesus did not say in John 20:17 - “Do not touch me” as she first believed, but more along the lines of her later (in DA) “Do not detain me”.

Quote:
NJK: -4T 14 & 5T 691.1 - to not imply that ‘everything EGW wrote was either all by the “commission of God or directly from God or verbatim (=verbal inspiration).

Cephalopod: Well, I see we just won't be agreeing on this part....
...I see Sister White as an actual Sock Puppet with God's hand up in her.
...Controlling just when the mouth opens and what comes out of that mouth.


I understand your view. I just don’t moreoverly see the Truthfulness in this needed “stuttering”/mispeaking/mistaken process by God.

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
When I first heard this way of thinking of it I was shocked and disturbed.....
...However when the person produced a sock puppet and started reading the SOP, I GOT it.


I am not following your denouement here.

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
The JW's have done pretty well I'd say, at least the actual headquarters has nearly a billion in liquid cash...
...With around 16 million members with approx 8 million being active members.
..That's not that bad I'd say.


First of all, in passing, from what I historically read about JW’s, with their actually distinct 1870 founding by Charles Russell, they do not technically qualify as an original “Adventist” group, per se. he was only influenced in 1869 by an Adventist Church (not SDA) preacher, who himself had been influenced by William Miller.

Nonetheless, their membership growth is quite noteworthy however in terms of total Ecclesiastical and Institutional Growth, they do not compare to the SDA Church, in fact only the Catholic Church does, and member-per-member, the SDA Church actually blows out the Catholic Church in terms of institutions. I.e., if the SDA Church had 1.2 Billion members, they would have many times more institutions that the Catholic Church presently has.

I also am not seeing what you find so remarkable about JW’s ‘having nearly a billion in liquid cash at the headquarters’. I assume you mean the Highest level of their Church structure. For one thing, the SDA Church takes in over $2.7 Billion in tithes and offerings (which is given by members in some “liquid cash” form) alone each year. And given the Bible model of the SDA Church where this money is not hoarded but used to fund the Churches institutions, most of this money is not held at the conference levels (i.e., banks and not the office headquarters themselves), though, as I understand it, a part of it is invested in the stock market. What a Church does with its money towards tangibly fulfilling Christ’s Gospel Commission is more determinative than how much money they have saved up.

The JW’s Personal Evangelism active membership criteria/distinction is interesting and noteworthy. If this was done in the SDA Church perhaps the active membership would only be that famous ‘one in 20' SOP statement. (ChS 41 (1893). {LDE 172.1}) In fact, the weekly Church attending membership is, if I recall exactly only ca. 50% of the total baptized membership. If the Church was really serious about at least Personal Evangelism (=true membership), then the books would more accurately reflect the real strength of this Israel vs. the current, effectively, propagandizing figures.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Is Adventism absolutely Arminian (Free will)? [Re: NJK Project] #135072
07/09/11 10:23 PM
07/09/11 10:23 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 24,541
Nova Scotia, Canada
bump

As this thread is nearing the 7 day active topics list limit, I am bumping this.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Is Adventism absolutely Arminian (Free will)? [Re: Daryl] #135923
09/05/11 04:19 AM
09/05/11 04:19 AM
cephalopod  Offline
Active Member 2014
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 252
Washington, USA
Opp's, what happened to NJKproject?

Re: Is Adventism absolutely Arminian (Free will)? [Re: Rick H] #191963
03/05/20 09:37 AM
03/05/20 09:37 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,496
Florida, USA
The bottom line is that man must still choose, God cannot force him. This is where the Holy Spirit must come, and like the wind, guide man and bring him to God

Re: Is Adventism absolutely Arminian (Free will)? [Re: Rick H] #191980
03/06/20 08:43 PM
03/06/20 08:43 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 24,541
Nova Scotia, Canada
Originally Posted by Rick H
The bottom line is that man must still choose, God cannot force him. This is where the Holy Spirit must come, and like the wind, guide man and bring him to God

Amen to that!


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Page 14 of 14 1 2 12 13 14

Moderator  Green Cochoa 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Should Churches Close Because Of Pandemic?
by D R. 04/05/20 06:54 PM
Why Bible Believers Should Oppose Vaccines
by kland. 04/05/20 02:16 PM
Coronavirus - potential impacts
by kland. 04/05/20 12:05 PM
When Does The Little Time Of Trouble Commence?
by ProdigalOne. 04/04/20 01:52 AM
Sunday Law Enacted In Panama!
by ProdigalOne. 04/04/20 01:47 AM
It Is Time To Repair The Breach!
by Green Cochoa. 04/03/20 11:25 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 04/03/20 12:56 PM
The Constitution Is Being Repudiated!
by ProdigalOne. 03/31/20 01:36 AM
Vaccine Credibility
by kland. 03/30/20 11:49 AM
Meeting People Online: Current Tools
by kland. 03/27/20 11:24 AM
The Simple Cure for Coronavirus: COVID-19
by Rick H. 03/25/20 03:20 PM
Money in the Bank
by Rick H. 03/15/20 05:30 AM
The Lost Sanctuary Bible Study Guide
by dedication. 03/14/20 09:59 PM
Fires, fires and more fires
by Rick H. 03/14/20 07:32 AM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Church Closure Puts Latter Rain on Hold
by kland. 04/05/20 05:45 PM
Ten Kings - One Hour
by kland. 04/05/20 05:19 PM
::S:: Nihar Justins dreams
by Wendell Slattery. 04/04/20 10:21 PM
What is the daily in Daniel 8:11?
by dedication. 03/30/20 01:29 AM
An Experience With a False Prophet
by Rick H. 03/28/20 06:55 PM
What is the Time of Jacob's Trouble
by Rick H. 03/23/20 12:57 PM
Pioneers' Beliefs about the Godhead
by APL. 03/20/20 12:16 PM
Churches Closing
by APL. 03/19/20 04:02 PM
Walter Veith Discusses Religious Freedom Movement
by ProdigalOne. 03/13/20 12:15 PM
Understanding the 1,260-year Prophecy
by kland. 03/11/20 12:36 PM
Pope Francis Is in Control
by Wendell Slattery. 03/07/20 10:00 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1