And, Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the end of those days!

How do we know to how to take the 7 times of Daniel 4? Dedication was not able to answer my question about what the differences of prophetic, symbolic, and literal time was. She seemed to mix them and not make a distinction of the terms. Maybe a different way of asking the same question would be to ask, When should we take prophetic time symbolically or literally? Are there any guidelines?

I would suggest the following points:

1) The Bible does not give a prophetic time formula without a reason (i.e. no use for it).
2) Bible interpretation always must take the context into consideration.
3) Things which are obviously abnormal or illogical should be examined for prophetic or symbolic meaning.
4) At least two witnesses for a point should suffice to establish it, but be careful of using just one text to support a doctrine.
5) Allow the Holy Spirit to guide the thoughts, and lay all personal biases or traditions aside.


The Bible explains itself. In the case which you have asked about, kland, I would note several things:

1) There is a day-for-millennium time formula which is given in the Bible in at least two different texts. Where does this formula apply? It must be given us for a reason, just as they day-year formula is given.
2) The day-year formula legitimately applies to both the prophecy in which it is given and to additional prophecies. This is to be expected with the Bible which frequently reuses symbols and the like to mean the same thing. The day-millennium formula, if we are being consistent, would also have this same potential of multiple applications.
3) The story of Nebuchadnezzar is so strange that it defies reason. It is entirely illogical that Nebuchadnezzar would grow feathers and talons instead of a mane and hooves, or something else more inline with a grass feeder. For him to eat grass while at the same time being depicted more as an eagle is something that should make us take notice and look deeper.

When we examine the symbols, we find them all there:

grass -- people: Isaiah 40:6-7
birds -- demons: Revelation 18:2
pride -- Lucifer's first sin: Ezekiel 28
insanity -- Satan: Ha! He's lost his mind!

To me it seems the most logical conclusion to understand that Nebuchadnezzar had represented Lucifer/Satan in type, just as the prince of Tyrus does in Ezekiel 28.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

"And, Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the end of those days!"

There is absolutely NO mention of the 1260, 1290, 1350 days in that entire chapter in Great Controversy.

Once God steps in to deliver the saints during the seventh plague, they are already sealed and now radiating the glory of heaven, the special resurrection has taken place. The wicked fall at their feet confessing that God loved them.
The WAITING time is definitely over.

If you are trying to say the announcement is given after some speciefied 1290 days, and Christ comes after 1335 days. I can't agree, we are not to do that sort of thing.

There are NO timelines between 1844 and the second coming.

My answers were not to your satisfaction obviously.
"Prophetic time" is not the same as "time mentioned in prophecies". Yet it seemed to me you were mixing those two as one and then trying to discredit the whole system known as "prophetic time".

The term "Prophetic time" is when the day/year is applied. It is applied when the vision covers vaste amounts of time.
Daniel nine is our key that Daniel's visions use the day/year principle when outlining the events of history.

Daniel four is a prophecy about a king. It's setting is local in Daniel's time. So it would be time measured in that setting. What people call "literal time" in which the day/year is not applied.

The same time lines as found in Daniel are in Revelation. Revelation uses the same way of depicting large segments of earth's history in day for a year formula.


"Prophetic time" with "literal time" is not confusing to me. It's those who want it both ways that switch them around so we can't tell what is "prophetic" and what is "literal" that is confusing.
It's quite plain if one is consistant.

Is the "day for millennium" actually a prophetic formula?

You've done a good job to show that the day for a year is a prophetic formula as both Ezekiel and Numbers definitely use it as such. Both state formula and also a certain number of days which stood for a certain number of specified years. The formula and an application were given, making it clear this was a prophetic formula.

But do the texts speaking of a day like a thousand years do the same?

Let's have a look at the texts:



What is it saying?

Well, people are scoffing saying the rumor that Christ is coming and will execute judgment is a myth; for thousands of years have passed and nothing has happened. (They've even dismissed the flood from their thoughts)

Peter is saying
TIME isn't the issue with God.
He can do in one day what we might think should take a thousand years, and though a thousand years may seem terribly long to us, it's not long at all for God, only like a day to God.

There is no prophecy relating to a day for a 1000 years in the text in which the "formula" is applied as an example.

Indeed it does the opposite.
It's telling us not to worry for God is holding off judgment because He is longsuffering not willing that any should perish!

BUT the time will come when judgment will be executed. Not at the end of a stated day for 1000 years, BUT when it won't be expected!
Even in Peter's day the people are admonished to look for and hasten unto the day of the Lord, carefully living a life honourable to God.



I'm not saying we can't draw very important lessons from Daniel 4, for indeed we can but,
I don't consider the literal realities within the propecy illogical at all.
It doesn't say he grew feathers nor talons.
His NAILS grew till they looked like birds claws.
And that is a good simile because I've seen people who let their nails grow one to two inches and they were thick and curved like claws.
His hair (totally uncombed) grew till it looked like feathers sticking out everywhere. Hair can do that -- believe me, it's called "bad hair day". And seven years of no combing hair would be a long MESS -- it would be a super "bad hair day"!

Growing hooves would be totally illogical, simply because people don't grow hooves, but some can grow nails that look like claws.

In those days insane people were driven out away from civilization. So yes, he did eat plants and grass.
I would hesitate to spiritualize away the reality of what happened to Nebuchadnezzar those seven years.

But I do think you believe he was literally insane those seven years.



The seven times as being interpreted by the day for a year principle resulting in 2520 years, was "kind of dismissed" with a sermon from a man who discredited it because someone had reapplied them to the 9/11 event. That author brought up quote after quote showing that the longest timelines ended in 1844.

The 2520 timeline basically runs from the time when Israel began to lose the "scepter" or "crown". From that time onward, God's people were under political/religious powers -- Babylon, Persia, Greece, Imperial Rome, Papal Rome -- till finally that power was broken in 1798.

"The crown removed from Israel passed successively to the kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. God says, "It shall be no more, until He come whose right it is; and I will give it Him." {Ed 179.3}

In 1844 Christ,

dedication,

To get one thing straight here, in case my confusing statements are somehow again at fault, let me clarify: I do NOT believe the 2520 prophecy has much of anything to do with Daniel 4. I am not making that connection here.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Dedication,

Regarding 2 Peter 3, I would invite you to read the prophecy it touches on expounded at this link:

http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=103804#Post103804

Any discussion on that prophecy would be welcome in that thread, and we can continue here with the post-1844 prophetic time discussion.

God bless,

Green Cochoa.

I realize that.
I never said or implied that you did.
My question is WHY jump to a day for a millinnium when all the other prophecies in Daniel use a day for a year.
My question was WHY say a "time" means a day, when the other prophecies beginning point uses a "time" as a year.

Yes, I know you explained a "time" could mean either. But that's not consistant use of the word when dealing with Daniel's prophecies.

Consistant interpretation would say Seven times = Seven years equals 2520 days. Use the day for year formula and a person has 2520 years.

You dismissed seven times equal 2520 years (a day for a year) with a sermon from someone called Pastor Lemon, who gave an excellent presentation that the longest timelines reach to 1844 not beyond.

Which I find really strange as the ORIGINAL 2520 years ended in 1844, while your year for a millennium goes way beyond 1844.

But post 1844 prophetic events aren't based on "time".





And more quotes: