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Why is the "virgin birth" important?
#136315
09/28/11 05:41 PM
09/28/11 05:41 PM
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OP
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
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From another forum, the question came up about why the virgin birth was important, if indeed it was a "virgin" (ie: "non-copulative" if that's a word  ) birth at all. What is the theological significance, and what are the implications?
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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Re: Why is the "virgin birth" important?
[Re: JAK]
#136316
09/28/11 06:01 PM
09/28/11 06:01 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14 It was prophesied. That's significant, don't you think? Furthermore, it is significant that we know He was not just an ordinary man, but the Son of God. That He would actually deign to mix His genetics with that of His created beings is something beyond comprehension. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Why is the "virgin birth" important?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#136317
09/28/11 07:45 PM
09/28/11 07:45 PM
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OP
FORMER-SDA
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Posts: 663
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You know I hate those shallow non-answers.
A) Being prophecied does not make an event significant. Events are prophecied because they are significant.
B) The original "prophecy" is ambiguous in that it did not specifically imply "virgins" as in no sex, but rather virgin as in "young women." (Actually it can not be "proved" either way.)
"bthuwlah" (virgin) is the Hebrew root from which "bthuwliym" (virginity) is derived, but the prophecy in Isa. uses "almah", a much weaker word if used as refering to virginity. It is usually translaated simply as girl. (The SDA Bible commentary on Isa. 7:14 is very interesting on this point.)
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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Re: Why is the "virgin birth" important?
[Re: JAK]
#136376
10/01/11 03:32 AM
10/01/11 03:32 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Nov 2005
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E. Oregon, USA
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It's not shallow, surely.  A "girl" would implicate not married, in Israelite/Jewish society back then, btw, not so? Don't get lost in the details: God is involved. The real issue is conceived by the Holy Spirit and in fact Son of the Highest come to earth! That's why it's so important: the incarnation.
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Re: Why is the "virgin birth" important?
[Re: Colin]
#136385
10/01/11 07:23 AM
10/01/11 07:23 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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"There is no instance where it can be proved that 'almâ designates a young woman who is not a virgin. The fact of virginity is obvious in Gen 24:43 where 'almâ is used of one who was being sought as a bride for Isaac." (R. Laird Harris, et al. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, p. 672.) The word is used but seven times in the Bible. Not a single one of those has the "virgin" in an already-consummated marriage relationship. That's the Hebrew word used in the Isaiah 7:14 prophecy. As for the Greek, we have the word "parthenos," which is used for Mary, for the Ten Virgins, for Paul's statements regarding remaining in one's virginity without marrying, etc. Again, not once is it used for someone who has consummated the marriage. It can be used for one who is espoused (engaged to be married) as was the case with Mary. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Why is the "virgin birth" important?
[Re: JAK]
#136395
10/01/11 08:14 PM
10/01/11 08:14 PM
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Group: Admin Team
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,126
Florida, USA
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From another forum, the question came up about why the virgin birth was important, if indeed it was a "virgin" (ie: "non-copulative" if that's a word ) birth at all. What is the theological significance, and what are the implications? The answer is quite simple in my mind, because the Messiah had to be completely divine and completely human with no chromosones/DNA from the male side and only a virgin could guarrantee that.
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Re: Why is the "virgin birth" important?
[Re: Rick H]
#136448
10/04/11 05:31 PM
10/04/11 05:31 PM
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OP
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
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If there is no DNA from the male side the product is not "completely" human. If it contains DNA from the female side, the product is not "completely" divine, unless female DNA is divine and only male DNA is human. (This is going to get me in so much trouble.)
Last edited by JAK; 10/04/11 05:37 PM.
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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Re: Why is the "virgin birth" important?
[Re: JAK]
#136452
10/04/11 07:04 PM
10/04/11 07:04 PM
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It is obvious that Christ's DNA is unlike any other DNA, as Christ's DNA seems to contain the female human DNA from Mary, and the male human DNA from the Holy Spirit's own making for nothing is impossible with God.
Remember Christ is the only human being that was both born in a virgin and who pre-existed prior to His being conceived and born as a human baby.
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Re: Why is the "virgin birth" important?
[Re: JAK]
#136460
10/04/11 11:49 PM
10/04/11 11:49 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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From another forum, the question came up about why the virgin birth was important, if indeed it was a "virgin" (ie: "non-copulative" if that's a word ) birth at all. What is the theological significance, and what are the implications? It's a matter of slavery. John 8:34
Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
Romans 6:16
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Exodus 21:2-4
2 If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years; and in the seventh he shall go out free and pay nothing. 3 If he comes in by himself, he shall go out by himself; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master has given him a wife, and she has borne him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself. When Adam obeyed Satan and committed sin, he sold himself as a slave. He was "sold under sin" and needed to be redeemed. As such, anyone born to the enslaved Adam are also counted as slaves needing redemption. Hence, by Adam's foolishness, we were all sold under sin, made sinners by one man's disobedience. In order for Jesus to redeem us, He could not have been a slave Himself. Christ's Father could not be one of fallen Adam's descendants, a sinner sold under sin. Hence, the only Father available was God.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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