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Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity? [Re: gordonb1] #136568
10/09/11 06:56 AM
10/09/11 06:56 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: gordonb1
True, Ellen White & James White would be disfellowshipped.


This comment seems out of line.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity? [Re: dedication] #136572
10/09/11 09:03 AM
10/09/11 09:03 AM
G
geoffm  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 160
NSW, Australia
I don't know of any anti-trinitarian who would give any credence to such a claim. The anti-trinitarian position has been clear and settled from the early days. "A survey of other Adventist writers during these year, reveals that, to a man, they rejected the Trinity, yet with equal unanimity they upheld the divinity of Christ." Doctrine of the Trinity in the SDA denomination, 311.


Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. 2 John 3.
Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity? [Re: Green Cochoa] #136575
10/09/11 12:24 PM
10/09/11 12:24 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
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Active Member 2014

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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
Quote:
Green: This comment seems out of line.

"Most of the founders of Seventh=day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination's Fundamental Beliefs...More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2, which deals with the doctrine of the Trinity..." George Knight, Ministry Magazine, October 1993, p. 10

_________________

Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity? [Re: dedication] #136576
10/09/11 01:00 PM
10/09/11 01:00 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
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Quote:
Basically you are saying that Christ and Lucifer were on the same level. Both created beings.

Of course not. No such claim was made. Christ was the Son of God, before creation, before Satan's fall.

The Father created all things through His Son. They created the angels, including Lucifer, the planets and all earth's inhabitants.

"And I saw that when GOD said to his SON, Let us make man in our image, Satan was jealous of JESUS."
(Capitals in original - 1 Spiritual Gifts p, 17. 1858)

Ellen White placed this vision upon the very first page of her original Great Controversy series. The Sonship of Christ is a pillar of her work, as with the Bible.

"Those who derided His claim to be the Son of God are speechless now." Great Controversy 643.

_______________________

Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity? [Re: gordonb1] #136577
10/09/11 02:40 PM
10/09/11 02:40 PM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
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Canada

Originally Posted By: gordonb1
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Originally Posted By: asygo
I recently heard that a prominent Adventist author teaches the idea that the Father created Jesus a long time ago, then promoted Him into the Godhead. Furthermore, Lucifer became jealous because he wanted to be promoted as well.

I think nowadays it would not be possible for a prominent Adventist author to teach this and still retain his functions.


True, Ellen White & James White would be disfellowshipped.

__________________


So yes you were defending the "prominent Adventist author [who]teaches the idea that the Father created Jesus a long time ago, then promoted Him into the Godhead.

And yes, that is putting Christ on the same level as Lucifer, only that Christ was exalted and Lucifer wasn't. Which is heresy.

Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity? [Re: dedication] #136578
10/09/11 02:46 PM
10/09/11 02:46 PM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,433
Canada
Christ's "exaltation" before the angel's did not change His position.

But when Lucifer began to agitate this idea, God the Father called an assembly and showed them Christ's true exalted position.

"The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son" [PA 36]
"There had been no change in the position or authority of Christ. Lucifer's envy and misrepresentation and his claims to equality with Christ had made necessary a statement of the true position of the Son of God; but this had been the same from the beginning. Many of the angels were, however, blinded by Lucifer's deceptions. {PP 38.1}

So that "exaltation" was not a promotion or "change in position or authority of Christ. It was to show the angels that the member of the Godhead Who was their Leader was equal with God the Father! He was indeed God.

Christ was NOT created or pro-created.
His was life un-originated and unborrowed.
There is NO need to force the human finite concept of "a son" unto the Divine relationship of "Father and Son".

Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity? [Re: gordonb1] #136579
10/09/11 02:59 PM
10/09/11 02:59 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: gordonb1
Quote:
Green: This comment seems out of line.

"Most of the founders of Seventh=day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination's Fundamental Beliefs...More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2, which deals with the doctrine of the Trinity..." George Knight, Ministry Magazine, October 1993, p. 10

_________________


George's comment seems out of line, too. The church is not to have any creed other than the Bible, per Ellen White.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity? [Re: Green Cochoa] #136580
10/09/11 03:29 PM
10/09/11 03:29 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec

George Knight is probably the leading historian of the SDA Church. Though often out of line, at least here he speaks a truth in Ministry magazine (the official Church journal for pastors). But as a Church spokesperson and educator, he goes on record that Church doctrine has changed.

_______________________

Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity? [Re: Green Cochoa] #136581
10/09/11 03:40 PM
10/09/11 03:40 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
The church is not to have any creed other than the Bible.


Agreed. Thus there is one baptismal vow to join the Church:

"I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. ...and he baptized him." (Acts 8:37,38)

_____________________

Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity? [Re: gordonb1] #136582
10/09/11 04:02 PM
10/09/11 04:02 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec

Dedication may have missed the first pages of Patriarchs & Prophets,
where the author is laying the groundwork.

Here EGW quotes Proverbs 8:22-30 as spoken by Christ Himself.

"The Lord possessed me..."
"I was set up..."
"I was brought forth..."
"Then I was by him as one brought up with him..."
"I was daily his delight..."

Patriarchs & Prophets p. 34

_______________________________

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