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Re: Lesson #1 (1st Quarter 2012): The Triune God [Re: Daryl] #138544
01/02/12 12:08 AM
01/02/12 12:08 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Nova Scotia, Canada
From Sunday's material:
Quote:
The same word, echad, for “one,” is used of God in the “Shema” of Deu_6:4. This word echad for oneness does not imply a mathematical sum but a complex unity instead. Something is being affirmed here about a unity of distinct parts. Husbands and wives are to be “one” (echad) according to Gen_2:24, just as in Deuteronomy God is “one.”

Take note that husband and wife are referred to as being one flesh, but are still two distinct individuals. The same reasoning as oneness in three individuals as in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit would also make sense.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
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Re: Lesson #1 (1st Quarter 2012): The Triune God [Re: Daryl] #138545
01/02/12 02:55 AM
01/02/12 02:55 AM
B
Bobryan  Offline
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Posts: 793
Georgia, USA
John 17 "That THEY may be one even as WE are one"

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Re: Lesson #1 (1st Quarter 2012): The Triune God [Re: Bobryan] #138546
01/02/12 12:56 PM
01/02/12 12:56 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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The THEY is obviously referring to His followers ande the WE is obviously referring to the Godhead, that is also referred to as the Trinity.

Originally Posted By: Bobryan
John 17 "That THEY may be one even as WE are one"


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson #1 (1st Quarter 2012): The Triune God [Re: Daryl] #138547
01/02/12 04:01 PM
01/02/12 04:01 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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The one point that is brushed aside as unimportant is the fact the Father, under the non-trinitarian model, spent eternity in a dark and void universe all by Himself. Not until Jesus came along and began creating things did the Father have others to love and enjoy. The idea that the Father spent eternity alone is too unimaginable to believe.

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Re: Lesson #1 (1st Quarter 2012): The Triune God [Re: Mountain Man] #138553
01/02/12 08:54 PM
01/02/12 08:54 PM
C
Colin  Offline
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E. Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The one point that is brushed aside as unimportant is the fact the Father, under the non-trinitarian model, spent eternity in a dark and void universe all by Himself. Not until Jesus came along and began creating things did the Father have others to love and enjoy. The idea that the Father spent eternity alone is too unimaginable to believe.

Yes, quite unimaginable! smile

Two things are a mystery about God, no, three things. wink

The begotten Sonship of Christ's eternal pre-existence, his incarnation as the Son of man, and the perfection of his human character of Godliness in our sinful flesh.

Thus, we accept that the Father is the God and Father of Christ, Christ is the Son of God and equal to him, as announced to the heavenly host before Lucifer fell, and we receive the Holy Spirit from them now that Christ is ascended to heaven - not guarranteed when he was incarnated, for he took infinite risk of losing his divinity when becoming a man should he sin - that we may live for God through Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Re: Lesson #1 (1st Quarter 2012): The Triune God [Re: Daryl] #138554
01/02/12 09:23 PM
01/02/12 09:23 PM
C
Colin  Offline
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E. Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl F
Let us take a close look, constructive criticism or otherwise, in the material presented in this week's lesson study material and respond to the material given.

Quote:
Here is how this week's study begins:
Originally Posted By: Sabbath Afternoon, December 31, 2011

Though the word Trinity itself doesn’t appear in the Bible, the teaching definitely does. The doctrine of the Trinity, that God is One and composed of three “Persons,” is crucial because it is dealing with who God is, what He is like, how He works, and how He relates to the world. Most important, the deity of Christ is essential to the plan of salvation.

There is, of course, much good in this lesson: it speaks of God saving us from sin, in the person of his Son.

This bit, though: "...God is One and composed of three "Persons"", is a problem. "They" is allowed for the persons of the trinity, under further reading; yet, they are parts of a divine Being, the Trinity.
Originally Posted By: Sabbath, 2nd par.
The distinctions among God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit found in the Bible must be understood as being the way God is in Himself, however difficult for our fallen minds to grasp. The “eternal heavenly dignitaries-God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit,” as Ellen G. White calls them (Evangelism, p. 616), are equal but not identical or interchangeable.

This says it well: personal distinctions are "the way God is in himself". That isn't just difficult to grasp, it's not a personal God, is it, God and Christ, both present within by their Spirit? "God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit" are "God...in himself"? Please help me differentiate that from modalism?? smile It may be meant to be miles from modalism - as is said at the end of the lesson, but it's the language of modalism, or? How the Nicene Creed, with its formless substance of orthodox teaching, avoids modalism is a technicality, in their thinking, perhaps: the "personae" are "centres of consciousness" in that substance, rendering them distinct.

As the Bible reveals the living God, the members of the Godhead have identities much more personal and real than that. God and his Son are spoken of as is the Spirit of God: how significant is the identity of Christ as the Son of God, in the Bible? Is it just his incarnated relationship to his Father or also the very basis of his deity in his pre-existence, as the Pharisees recognised, too, making him equal with God?

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Re: Lesson #1 (1st Quarter 2012): The Triune God [Re: Daryl] #138555
01/02/12 09:45 PM
01/02/12 09:45 PM
C
Colin  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl F
The final paragraph in the Sabbath Afternoon section says:
Quote:
Though some early Adventists struggled with the doctrine, our church today has taken a firm and unrelenting stand on this teaching. As Fundamental Belief number 2 says, “There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons.”

The first sentence, here, is not in the printed quarterly, btw. cool check here, http://absg.adventist.org

It is similar to the first question at the end of the lesson, but is rather more strident.

It's historical reference is simply wrong: our early church's teaching was firmly and decidedly against the doctrine. Our beliefs, on the other hand, shouldn't really be "unrelenting", for the Bible is our rule of faith.

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Re: Lesson #1 (1st Quarter 2012): The Triune God [Re: Daryl] #138556
01/02/12 09:50 PM
01/02/12 09:50 PM
C
Colin  Offline
Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl F
From Sunday's material:
Quote:
The same word, echad, for “one,” is used of God in the “Shema” of Deu_6:4. This word echad for oneness does not imply a mathematical sum but a complex unity instead. Something is being affirmed here about a unity of distinct parts. Husbands and wives are to be “one” (echad) according to Gen_2:24, just as in Deuteronomy God is “one.”

Take note that husband and wife are referred to as being one flesh, but are still two distinct individuals. The same reasoning as oneness in three individuals as in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit would also make sense.

Indeed, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are separate persons each possessing one Godhead, but "echad" isn't exclusively about a complex unity: ask any Jewish Rabbi, it means numerically one, too. There's no linguistic significance at all in "echad" denoting plurality, sorry. Even in the Bible itself, this Hebrew word is used in a mathematical "singular" meaning many times.

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Re: Lesson #1 (1st Quarter 2012): The Triune God [Re: Colin] #138557
01/02/12 09:55 PM
01/02/12 09:55 PM
H
Harold Fair  Offline
Active Member 2013
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 215
Florida, USA
I personally think that a lot of confusion comes from our use of "Father & Son". God is not the Father of Jesus Christ.


Harold T.
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Re: Lesson #1 (1st Quarter 2012): The Triune God [Re: Harold Fair] #138558
01/02/12 11:51 PM
01/02/12 11:51 PM
C
Colin  Offline
Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
What do you mean? - remember this?

Originally Posted By: EGW
God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father. All the counsels of God are opened to his Son. (8T 268)

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