|
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,606
Members1,323
| |
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
|
Re: Astronomy question
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#139237
01/28/12 02:20 PM
01/28/12 02:20 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2024
Senior Member
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 628
New York
|
|
Amen, our heavenly knowlege will be progressive. What may appear to be stars dieing to us we are looking at the event through our expirence. Leave room that this was something that was used to continue life that we will learn more about when we get to heaven.
|
|
|
Re: Astronomy question
[Re: Tom]
#139240
01/28/12 04:23 PM
01/28/12 04:23 PM
|
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Regarding the Revelation 12 passage: Could one sin have been found in Christ, had He in one particular yielded to Satan to escape the terrible torture, the enemy of God and man would have triumphed. Christ bowed His head and died, but He held fast His faith and His submission to God. "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." Rev. 12:10.
Satan saw that his disguise was torn away. His administration was laid open before the unfallen angels and before the heavenly universe. He had revealed himself as a murderer. By shedding the blood of the Son of God, he had uprooted himself from the sympathies of the heavenly beings. (DA 761) I don't how you could argue from this that the earth existed before creation week. Your first quote says: Especially was His Son to work in union with Himself in the anticipated creation of the earth and every living thing that should exist upon the earth. {SR 13.2} This implies the earth did not exist ("anticipated creation of the earth ..."). So I'm not following your train of thought. Also, if you think the earth was "recreated," why would you think it was surrounded by our galaxy? Wouldn't it make sense that the earth was created at the same time the galaxy was? Also there are other worlds besides our own, with beings on them that already existed. These worlds must have already existed. Where did the evil angels go when they were cast out of heaven the first time? On what day of creation week was the void and formless and water covered planet created? What was created on the fourth day?
|
|
|
Re: Astronomy question
[Re: Tom]
#139241
01/28/12 04:33 PM
01/28/12 04:33 PM
|
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Scientific interpretation of deep space photos may be incorrect. What they think pictures death of stars may be something else altogether. I suspect the photos compiled thus far reach no farther than what was created on the fourth day of creation week. If so, then what we're seeing dates back only 6,000 years. That would only make sense for stars which are exactly 6,000 light years away. What's your thinking here? Regarding the death of stars, there is other evidence than photographs. If I'm understanding you correctly, it is your opinion that stars could not have died, so any evidence that stars have died must be incorrect? Have I understood you correctly? Is so, why do you feel this way? I doubt we have the ability to see unfallen planets. Don't have proof, though. All the star light we can see from earth and through space-based cameras could be older than 6,000 years, especially if our planet was created in the midst of it afterward. As to stars dying, I can't say for sure. Before sin, though, I doubt stars died. And, I doubt stars outside our galaxy would die. Death is the result of sin, and no one outside our galaxy has sinned (assuming evil angels were "cast into the earth"). Their ability to roam the universe most likely did not result in causing death in unfallen galaxies. Since the cross, though, I doubt evil angels are free to roam the universe any more.
|
|
|
Re: Astronomy question
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#139242
01/28/12 04:40 PM
01/28/12 04:40 PM
|
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
After his expulsion from Eden Adam’s life on earth was filled with sorrow. Every dying leaf, every victim of sacrifice, every blight upon the fair face of nature, every stain upon man’s purity, were fresh reminders of his sin. {AH 540.4} 'I saw another field full of all kinds of flowers, and as I plucked them, I cried out, “They will never fade.” {EW 18.1} Sounds like the pitcher is always full in heaven. What about the plants we eat?
|
|
|
Re: Astronomy question
[Re: Tom]
#139245
01/28/12 04:56 PM
01/28/12 04:56 PM
|
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
1. Evil angels rebelled in heaven. 2. They were "cast out into the earth". 3. Jesus created mankind "to inhabit the earth". Good angels wept to hear the words of Satan and his exulting boasts. God declared that the rebellious should remain in heaven no longer. Their high and happy state had been held upon condition of obedience to the law which God had given to govern the high order of intelligences. But no provision had been made to save those who should venture to transgress His law. Satan grew bold in his rebellion, and expressed his contempt of the Creator's law. This Satan could not bear. He claimed that angels needed no law but should be left free to follow their own will, which would ever guide them right; that law was a restriction of their liberty; and that to abolish law was one great object of his standing as he did. The condition of the angels, he thought, needed improvement. Not so the mind of God, who had made laws and exalted them equal to Himself. The happiness of the angelic host consisted in their perfect obedience to law. Each had his special work assigned him, and until Satan rebelled, there had been perfect order and harmonious action in heaven. {SR 18.2}
Then there was war in heaven. The Son of God, the Prince of heaven, and His loyal angels engaged in conflict with the archrebel and those who united with him. The Son of God and true, loyal angels prevailed; and Satan and his sympathizers were expelled from heaven. All the heavenly host acknowledged and adored the God of justice. Not a taint of rebellion was left in heaven. All was again peaceful and harmonious as before. Angels in heaven mourned the fate of those who had been their companions in happiness and bliss. Their loss was felt in heaven. {SR 19.1}
The Father consulted His Son in regard to at once carrying out their purpose to make man to inhabit the earth. He would place man upon probation to test his loyalty before he could be rendered eternally secure. If he endured the test wherewith God saw fit to prove him, he should eventually be equal with the angels. He was to have the favor of God, and he was to converse with angels, and they with him. He did not see fit to place them beyond the power of disobedience. {SR 19.2} The earth in its void, formless, water-covered state existed before the first day of creation week.
|
|
|
Re: Astronomy question
[Re: Mountain Man]
#139253
01/28/12 08:34 PM
01/28/12 08:34 PM
|
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
|
|
1. Evil angels rebelled in heaven. 2. They were "cast out into the earth". 3. Jesus created mankind "to inhabit the earth". Good angels wept to hear the words of Satan and his exulting boasts. God declared that the rebellious should remain in heaven no longer. Their high and happy state had been held upon condition of obedience to the law which God had given to govern the high order of intelligences. But no provision had been made to save those who should venture to transgress His law. Satan grew bold in his rebellion, and expressed his contempt of the Creator's law. This Satan could not bear. He claimed that angels needed no law but should be left free to follow their own will, which would ever guide them right; that law was a restriction of their liberty; and that to abolish law was one great object of his standing as he did. The condition of the angels, he thought, needed improvement. Not so the mind of God, who had made laws and exalted them equal to Himself. The happiness of the angelic host consisted in their perfect obedience to law. Each had his special work assigned him, and until Satan rebelled, there had been perfect order and harmonious action in heaven. {SR 18.2}
Then there was war in heaven. The Son of God, the Prince of heaven, and His loyal angels engaged in conflict with the archrebel and those who united with him. The Son of God and true, loyal angels prevailed; and Satan and his sympathizers were expelled from heaven. All the heavenly host acknowledged and adored the God of justice. Not a taint of rebellion was left in heaven. All was again peaceful and harmonious as before. Angels in heaven mourned the fate of those who had been their companions in happiness and bliss. Their loss was felt in heaven. {SR 19.1}
The Father consulted His Son in regard to at once carrying out their purpose to make man to inhabit the earth. He would place man upon probation to test his loyalty before he could be rendered eternally secure. If he endured the test wherewith God saw fit to prove him, he should eventually be equal with the angels. He was to have the favor of God, and he was to converse with angels, and they with him. He did not see fit to place them beyond the power of disobedience. {SR 19.2} The earth in its void, formless, water-covered state existed before the first day of creation week. Sorry brother, but I don't see in your quote what you said in #2 of your list, that Satan was "cast out into the earth" immediately after his fall. There is no way God would subject us to the wrath of Satan without first committing sin and joining him in his rebellion. Satan was not permitted to bother us except at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then when Eve sinned, then Adam, that is when Satan was permitted to leave his prison of darkness and start destroying the world. In fact, in the above mentioned quote it shows that man was created after Satan fell. Are you trying to sell me the idea that God would send Satan here before He created the wonderful unfallen world and Satan had earth as a home before Adam? That would be a tainted view in my eyes.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
|
|
|
Re: Astronomy question
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#139256
01/28/12 08:43 PM
01/28/12 08:43 PM
|
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
|
|
"The wilderness temptation Christ endured was a personal conflict with the wicked one who had shown himself to be the author of sin. Satan was once a covering cherub in the heavenly courts, the angel next in power to Christ Himself. But he lifted himself up against God and induced some of the angels to join him in rebellion. There was war in heaven, and Satan and his followers were cast out. Expelled from heaven, Satan determined to set up a kingdom on this earth and win the human race to his side. But Christ pledged His word that if humans were overcome by temptation, He, the Son of God, would be their surety." {CTr 200.2}
Here it becomes clear, Satan was first cast out of heaven THEN Satan determined to set up a kingdom on this earth. In no way shape or form was it God's will that he come here. That would be making God look Satanic.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
|
|
|
Re: Astronomy question
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#139258
01/28/12 08:57 PM
01/28/12 08:57 PM
|
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
|
|
'That the expression “bottomless pit” represents the earth in a state of confusion and darkness is evident from other scriptures. Concerning the condition of the earth “in the beginning,” the Bible record says that it “was without form, and void (nothing there); and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” Genesis 1:2. Prophecy teaches that it will be brought back, partially at least, to this condition...'
So the world was not here before creation and it will be brought partially back to this condition after the second coming. The only thing that will remain is the earth itself, torn to shreds.
'Here is to be the home of Satan with his evil angels for a thousand years. Limited to the earth, he will not have access to other worlds to tempt and annoy those who have never fallen. It is in this sense that he is bound: there are none remaining, upon whom he can exercise his power. He is wholly cut off from the work of deception and ruin which for so many centuries has been his sole delight.' {Mar 307.4}
Satan has had access to the un-fallen worlds through his access to the gate to heaven, which he is witnessed accessing in the book of Job 1:6 'Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”
But when Jesus was born, lived, and died, then ascended to heaven, Satan was cast out of the heavenly courts because Christ had become the second Adam meaning the new representative of Earth. I hope you see. Peace.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
|
|
|
Re: Astronomy question
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#139260
01/28/12 09:37 PM
01/28/12 09:37 PM
|
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
|
|
People don't seem to get what an exalted position Adam fell from.
He was considered a created "son of God". The twenty four elders before the throne are also created "sons of God". They are the high priests of their worlds and are seen holding the Golden censors for their people's prayers to ascend to God.
Rev5:8 'And when he had taken the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
Adam lost his position and Satan became the representative of earth until Jesus came and became the second Adam. Now Jesus holds the Golden censor for the prayers of our world to ascend mixed with His merits.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
|
|
|
Re: Astronomy question
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#139262
01/28/12 10:09 PM
01/28/12 10:09 PM
|
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
|
|
Just so you know, I am in perfect confidence with Christ and His Father through the Holy Spirit in this matter at this exact moment. You are witnessing the Holy Spirit move through me right now. Sent by Jesus, in His Holy name, amen.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
|
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|
