Again, you'll be happy to learn I do not believe having subdued, subjected, reined-in sinful traits of character is the same thing as "sin happens in the heart, and sinful actions merely reflect the evil abundance of the heart."

M: Again, you'll be happy to learn I do not believe having subdued, subjected, reined-in sinful traits of character is the same thing as "sin happens in the heart, and sinful actions merely reflect the evil abundance of the heart."

A: I'm not sure if I'm happy or not because I'm not sure what you just said. Let's try to clarify. If a person has the intense desire to molest children, but he reins it in and somehow prevents his body from carrying out his lusts, is he righteous and holy, able to stand in God's presence without a mediator?

The lower passions have their seat in the body and work through it. The words "flesh" or "fleshly" or "carnal lusts" embrace the lower, corrupt nature; the flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God. We are commanded to crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts. How shall we do it? Shall we inflict pain on the body? No; but put to death the temptation to sin. The corrupt thought is to be expelled. Every thought is to be brought into captivity to Jesus Christ. All animal propensities are to be subjected to the higher powers of the soul. The love of God must reign supreme; Christ must occupy an undivided throne. Our bodies are to be regarded as His purchased possession. The members of the body are to become the instruments of righteousness. {AH 127.2}

The higher attributes of His being it is our privilege to have, if we will, through the provisions He has made, appropriate these blessings and diligently cultivate the good in the place of the evil. We have reason, conscience, memory, will, affections--all the attributes a human being can possess. Through the provision made when God and the Son of God made a covenant to rescue man from the bondage of Satan, every facility was provided that human nature should come into union with His divine nature. In such a nature was our Lord tempted. He could have yielded to Satan's lying suggestions as did Adam, but we should adore and glorify the Lamb of God that He did not in a single point yield one jot or one tittle. {3SM 130.2}

M: Sinful flesh nature is not a sentient being capable of sinning and incurring guilt.

A: Is my body (eyes, mouth, arms, legs, etc.) a sentient being that is capable of sinning and incurring guilt?

M: It is also clear Jesus did not indulge the same sinful propensities sinners indulge. Like born-again believers, Jesus subdued, subjected, reined-in the unholy clamorings of His sinful flesh nature.

R: The text says He didn't possess the same sinful, corrupt propensities as man (not that He didn't indulge them).

M: He didn't make them His own by indulging them.

A: If Jesus did not make these sinful, corrupt propensities "His own by indulging them," whose propensities were they?

M: "All selfishness comes from Satan." {LHU 292.2}

A: Did Jesus have selfishness?

Goodness is the result of divine power transforming human nature. By believing in Christ, the fallen race he has redeemed may obtain that faith which works by love and purifies the soul from all defilement. Then Christlike attributes appear: for by beholding Christ men become changed into the same image from glory to glory, from character to character. Good fruit is produced. The character is fashioned after the divine similitude, and integrity, uprightness, and true benevolence are manifested toward the sinful race. {ML 54.3}

They must cultivate patience, kindness, meekness, goodness, sympathy, and tender compassion for one another. All their rough, uncourteous, un-Christlike disposition must be purged away, for none of these unkind attributes are of Christ, but after the satanic order. The pure, heavenly graces are received and flourish in mind, heart, and character only as man becomes a partaker of the divine nature.... Heaven must begin on earth for every soul who will enter the heavenly mansions above. {OHC 368.4}

We have but one probation in which to form character, and our destiny depends upon the manner of character we form. Those who on earth have formed characters that through the grace of Christ bear the heavenly mould, will be ripened through the gracious influence of the Holy Spirit for the eternal reward. They become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. It is a realization of the fact that our characters are Christlike, that calls forth the song of praise and thanksgiving to God and to the Lamb. Those who appreciate the goodness, mercy, and love of Christ, and by beholding him become changed into his image, will be partakers of eternal life. The attributes of their character are like those of Christ, and they cannot fail of the rest that remains for the people of God. {ST, July 31, 1893 par. 1}

This last step in the ladder gives to the will a new spring of action. Christ offers a love that passeth knowledge. This love is not something kept apart from our life, but it takes hold of the entire being. The heaven to which the Christian is climbing will be attained only by those who have this crowning grace. This is the new affection which pervades the soul. The old is left behind. Love is the great controlling power. When love leads, all the faculties of mind and spirit are enlisted. Love to God and love to man will give the clear title to heaven. {OHC 73.3}

God requires of all His subjects obedience, entire obedience to all His commandments. He demands now as ever perfect righteousness as the only title to heaven. Christ is our hope and our refuge. His righteousness is imputed only to the obedient. Let us accept it through faith, that the Father shall find in us no sin. But those who have trampled on the holy law will have no right to claim that righteousness. O that we might view the immensity of the plan of salvation as obedient children to all God's requirements, believing that we have peace with God through Jesus Christ, our atoning sacrifice (RH Sept. 21, 1886)! {6BC 1072.8}

Mountain Man: Arnold, your views on sin and perfection concern me. Your idea that the righteous results of abiding in Jesus and partaking of the divine nature are selfish and sin-stained is alarming to me. How can you lament the idea that many people claim perfection is impossible while at the same time arguing born-again believers are incapable of experiencing "righteousness and true holiness"?

Tom: MM, is that what Arnold thinks? I don't see the evidence for that in the quote you posted from Arnold. Did he say somewhere that thinks the results of abiding in Jesus and partaking of the divine nature are selfish and sin-stained? That seems extremely unlikely to me. Did he say somewhere that born-again believers are incapable of experiencing "righteousness and true holiness"? It also strikes me as extremely unlikely that he would say this.