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Re: Astronomy question [Re: Charity] #139848
02/18/12 03:11 AM
02/18/12 03:11 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
James, this statement is the best commentary on the creation account I've seen so far. It's got the hallmarks of truth - Simple, brief and plausible:
Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder

The first verse, Gen 1:1 sets the stage. God is about to create the heavens of our earth. This not 'heaven' where God dwells but the heavens of earth, or our universe.

The second verse shows there was nothing in existence when He began. It also shows that at this point the only water in existence was the water of life, the Spirit of God in heaven. The same water that flows from His throne. This is His creative power or Holy Spirit. We are witnessing His Holy Spirit go forth to create our Universe by his word.

The third verse is the actual point of entry for anything to come into existence for this Universe. Like a giant placenta or incubator, God shared His glory with our space first. This is the light from Him to create and sustain life before there was a sun moon or stars.

You look at this verse as if it can be explained by material, scientific, Empirical evidence.

"Infidel geologists claim that the world is very much older than the Bible record makes it. They reject the Bible record, because of those things which are to them evidences from the earth itself, that the world has existed tens of thousands (billions) of years. And many who profess to believe the Bible record are at a loss to account for wonderful things which are found in the earth, with the view that creation week was only seven literal days, and that the world is now only about six thousand years old."{3SG 91.2}


On a different topic, your epitaph fits - Boanerges. I've naturally got that disposition myself. But, the Lord can mold us sons of Zebedee, siphon off the dross of human electricity and make us channels of the pure heavenly current. I've personally been inspired by a lot of your thoughts. It takes divine wisdom to know the difference between watering down the truth to make it more palatable and real courtesy. Please pray for me to that end. You're in my prayers brother. The parting words of a friend to me on his death bed were: "Let no man take your crown".


I am praying for you now, thank you for praying for me too Brother and thank you. In Jesus' name amen.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Astronomy question [Re: jamesonofthunder] #139849
02/18/12 03:33 AM
02/18/12 03:33 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Here are a few major hints to discover how our perspective to time is relative to our individual existence.

The thermodynamic arrow of time
Entropy (arrow of time)

The thermodynamic arrow of time is provided by the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which says that in an isolated system, entropy tends to increase with time. Entropy can be thought of as a measure of microscopic disorder; thus the Second Law implies that time is asymmetrical with respect to the amount of order in an isolated system: as a system advances through time, it will statistically become more disordered. This asymmetry can be used empirically to distinguish between future and past though measuring entropy does not accurately measure time. Also in an open system entropy can locally decrease with time: living systems decrease their entropy by expenditure of energy at the expense of environmental entropy increase.

British physicist Sir Alfred Brian Pippard wrote, "There is thus no justification for the view, often glibly repeated, that the Second Law of Thermodynamics is only statistically true, in the sense that microscopic violations repeatedly occur, but never violations of any serious magnitude. On the contrary, no evidence has ever been presented that the Second Law breaks down under any circumstances."[4] The Second Law is universal and seems to accurately describe the overall trend in real systems toward higher entropy.

This arrow of time seems to be related to all other arrows of time and arguably underlies some of them, with the exception of the weak arrow of time.

The cosmological arrow of time

See also: Entropy and Entropy (arrow of time)

The cosmological arrow of time points in the direction of the universe's expansion. It may be linked to the thermodynamic arrow, with the universe heading towards a heat death (Big Chill) as the amount of usable energy becomes negligible. Alternatively, it may be an artifact of our place in the universe's evolution (see the Anthropic bias), with this arrow reversing as gravity pulls everything back into a Big Crunch.

If this arrow of time is related to the other arrows of time, then the future is by definition the direction towards which the universe becomes bigger. Thus, the universe expands - rather than shrinks - by definition.

The thermodynamic arrow of time and the Second law of thermodynamics are thought to be a consequence of the initial conditions in the early universe. Therefore they ultimately result from the cosmological set-up.

Since creation!!!!!!!!!!


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Astronomy question [Re: jamesonofthunder] #139866
02/18/12 03:52 PM
02/18/12 03:52 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Heaven is no further away than it takes the redeemed to travel with Jesus from earth to heaven in seven days.

REDEEMED TAKE SEVEN DAYS TRAVELING TO HEAVEN.—We all entered the cloud together, and were seven days ascending to the sea of glass, when Jesus brought the crowns, and with His own right hand placed them on our heads. He gave us harps of gold and palms of victory. Here on the sea of glass the 144,000 stood in a perfect square. Some of them had very bright crowns, others not so bright. Some crowns appeared heavy with stars, while others had but few. All were perfectly satisfied with their crowns. And they were all clothed with a glorious white mantle from their shoulders to their feet. Angels were all about us as we marched over the sea of glass to the gate of the city. Jesus raised His mighty, glorious arm, laid hold of the pearly gate, swung it back on its glittering hinges, and said to us, “You have washed your robes in My blood, stood stiffly for My truth, enter in.” We all marched in and felt that we had a perfect right in the city.—LS 66, 67. {Hvn 47.2}
48

Re: Astronomy question [Re: Mountain Man] #139878
02/18/12 06:32 PM
02/18/12 06:32 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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That journey takes seven days, but does it HAVE to take seven days to get there? Maybe Jesus takes seven days to get there for a specific purpose. Imagine the sights on the way. Would you enjoy a trip you had planned for millennium if you couldn't stop and show the sights to your companions? "No we can't stop we're on a schedule"

Imagine the trauma his children have just gone through. To those who have just been resurrected, from their perspective they have just awaken from their deaths. For those who are alive they have just undergone the worst persecution ever. I don't think Jesus is acting like an ambulance driver to get them to the new Jerusalem.

He is explaining things to those who don't know, He is preparing those who have never seen, for the glory they are about to enter.

It was only a "Sabbaths Day journey" (slow walk) from the top of Mt. Olives where Jesus ascended to heaven, to the Eastern Gate of Jerusalem.



To make the point, after His resurrection Jesus appeared before Mary, and when she bowed to the ground and tried to touch Him He said "I have not yet ascended to my Father" then He left and was back a few hours later and then they all could touch Him. And He was hungry. Jesus feeds us on that 7 day journey to heaven.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Astronomy question [Re: jamesonofthunder] #139888
02/18/12 09:35 PM
02/18/12 09:35 PM
Will  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Thats a wonderful illustration James smile

Re: Astronomy question [Re: Will] #139893
02/18/12 11:11 PM
02/18/12 11:11 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
How fast is the speed of thought?

In other words, what about thought transportation from earth to heaven, or vice-versa?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Astronomy question [Re: Daryl] #139899
02/19/12 06:36 AM
02/19/12 06:36 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Posts: 3,613
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Imagine after Adam had been cast out of heaven, even in their sinful condition God allowed the antediluvian world to see the glory of Eden Through the Eastern Gate, which remained until the flood. The altars of Adam and the 'sons of God', Seth and his descendants, were there. The sons of Cain were as far away as they could get. Also imagine the fact that when a sacrifice was accepted, the fire of heaven consumed it. Just like Elijah's sacrifice, consumed by the righteous flames.

While desiring to enter the glory filled place which was right before the supplicant, you were transported in mind to the throne room of the Father to make supplication, mingled with the merits of the Lamb to come (then). This same imagery is what the Garden of Gethsemane experience is. But this time the Lamb is the one outside the eastern gate begging to come in. He accepted that punishment in Gethsemane, outside the eastern gate, then He could be killed and not before.

In this place, Gethsemane, the altar of His self sacrifice, we meet Him to have our souls searched, to be shown the pain we caused His innocent heart and to receive His mercy, His faith.

When we see from this light, receiving His faith, then it is that we are literally standing in the presence of the Father dressed in His priestly garments holding the golden censor which mixes the merits of Christs righteousness with our petitions and we are guaranteed success in prayer. Enter into the body of Christ, This is how to be transported right now into the throne room of grace which we are to boldly accomplish, at the speed of thought. This is the propitiation or transference of sins for grace. What an awesome exchange eh?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Astronomy question [Re: jamesonofthunder] #139908
02/19/12 05:06 PM
02/19/12 05:06 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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I suspect the redeemed are excited about seeing their heavenly Father. Stopping along the way, sightseeing, etc., would delay it. I know as a child, when it was our turn to visit dad, I cared nothing about the sights along the way. All I wanted was to arrive at dad's place as fast as possible.

Re: Astronomy question [Re: Mountain Man] #139919
02/19/12 06:51 PM
02/19/12 06:51 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
I suspect the redeemed are excited about seeing their heavenly Father. Stopping along the way, sightseeing, etc., would delay it. I know as a child, when it was our turn to visit dad, I cared nothing about the sights along the way. All I wanted was to arrive at dad's place as fast as possible.


The point is that it takes seven days, it only took Jesus minutes to get there. Whether it is because they are not yet prepared, or Jesus, now considered the everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6), has things He wants to show them, has not been revealed to me and this is just a healthy debate, OK?

John the Revelator also saw the "gate to Heaven" Through which he could commune with God...

"Patmos, a barren, rocky island in the Aegean Sea, had been chosen by the Roman government as a place of banishment for criminals; but to the servant of God this gloomy abode became the gate of heaven. Here, shut away from the busy scenes of life, and from the active labors of former years, he had the companionship of God and Christ and the heavenly angels, and from them he received instruction for the church for all future time. The events that would take place in the closing scenes of this earth’s history were outlined before him; and there he wrote out the visions he received from God. When his voice could no longer testify to the One whom he loved and served, the messages given him on that barren coast were to go forth as a lamp that burneth, declaring the sure purpose of the Lord concerning every nation on the earth. {AA 570.4}

Jacob also...

Jacob, after beholding the vision of the angels, exclaimed, “The Lord is in this place; and I knew it not.... This is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.” Genesis 28:16, 17. {CG 539.6}

This is how we can be here on earth and be in heaven at the speed of thought. This is the communication that the 144,000 has where they are seen on the heavenly mountain and go where ever the lamb goes while their bodies are still on earth.

"To the humble, believing soul, the house of God on earth is the gate of heaven. The song of praise, the prayer, the words spoken by Christ’s representatives, are God’s appointed agencies to prepare a people for the church above, for that loftier worship into which there can enter nothing that defileth. {CCh 249.1}

This is why it is so important to enter into prayer and the house of worship with extreme humbleness and sincerity of heart. Believing that we are truly entering into the Fathers presence through the merits of Christ .

"Let the members of every family bear in mind that they are closely allied to heaven. The Lord has a special interest in the families of His children here below. Angels offer the smoke of the fragrant incense for the praying saints. Then in every family let prayer ascend to heaven both in the morning and at the cool sunset hour, in our behalf presenting before God the Saviour’s merits. Morning and evening the heavenly universe take notice of every praying household.7 {CG 519.1}

And as the redeemed shall ascend to heaven, the gates of the city of God will swing back, and those who have kept the truth will enter in. A voice, richer than any music that ever fell on mortal ear, will be heard saying, “Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” Then the righteous will receive their reward. Their lives will run parallel with the life of Jehovah. They will cast their crowns at the Redeemer’s feet, touch the golden harps, and fill all heaven with rich music.—The Signs of the Times, April 15, 1889. {CS 350.2}


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Astronomy question [Re: jamesonofthunder] #139940
02/20/12 03:16 PM
02/20/12 03:16 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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P.S. mountain man, would we be fasting on the journey to heaven that takes seven days? I'm sure He would have some bag lunches for us on our way there, 'no time to stop grandpas waiting'.

I am leaning towards the thought that it takes seven days for our minds to wrap around the idea that we are really going to heaven with the King to see His Father's glory. Along the way there are things to understand for those who have not heard of the Sabbath, and things us Sabbath keepers need to know before we get there.

Again this is just my conclusion based off the evidence.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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