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Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141501
04/23/12 02:28 AM
04/23/12 02:28 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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By consuming and conquering the cup of trembling, Jesus accomplished more than merely dying. Anyone can die the second death. Only Jesus could consume and conquer it. Ellen wrote:

Quote:
Once a year, on the great Day of Atonement, the priest entered the most holy place for the cleansing of the sanctuary. The work there performed completed the yearly round of ministration. On the Day of Atonement two kids of the goats were brought to the door of the tabernacle, and lots were cast upon them, "one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat." Verse 8. The goat upon which fell the lot for the Lord was to be slain as a sin offering for the people. And the priest was to bring his blood within the veil and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat and before the mercy seat. The blood was also to be sprinkled upon the altar of incense that was before the veil. {GC 419.1}

"And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: and the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited." Verses 21, 22. The scapegoat came no more into the camp of Israel, and the man who led him away was required to wash himself and his clothing with water before returning to the camp. {GC 419.2}

The whole ceremony was designed to impress the Israelites with the holiness of God and His abhorrence of sin; and, further, to show them that they could not come in contact with sin without becoming polluted. Every man was required to afflict his soul while this work of atonement was going forward. All business was to be laid aside, and the whole congregation of Israel were to spend the day in solemn humiliation before God, with prayer, fasting, and deep searching of heart. {GC 419.3}

Important truths concerning the atonement are taught by the typical service. A substitute was accepted in the sinner's stead; but the sin was not canceled by the blood of the victim. A means was thus provided by which it was transferred to the sanctuary. By the offering of blood the sinner acknowledged the authority of the law, confessed his guilt in transgression, and expressed his desire for pardon through faith in a Redeemer to come; but he was not yet entirely released from the condemnation of the law. On the Day of Atonement the high priest, having taken an offering from the congregation, went into the most holy place with the blood of this offering, and sprinkled it upon the mercy seat, directly over the law, to make satisfaction for its claims. Then, in his character of mediator, he took the sins upon himself and bore them from the sanctuary. Placing his hands upon the head of the scapegoat, he confessed over him all these sins, thus in figure transferring them from himself to the goat. The goat then bore them away, and they were regarded as forever separated from the people. {GC 420.1}

It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scapegoat. When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, He will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty. The scapegoat was sent away into a land not inhabited, never to come again into the congregation of Israel. So will Satan be forever banished from the presence of God and His people, and he will be blotted from existence in the final destruction of sin and sinners. {GC 422.2}

In the typical service the high priest, having made the atonement for Israel, came forth and blessed the congregation. So Christ, at the close of His work as mediator, will appear, "without sin unto salvation" (Hebrews 9:28), to bless His waiting people with eternal life. As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the head of the scapegoat, so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin. The scapegoat, bearing the sins of Israel, was sent away "unto a land not inhabited" (Leviticus 16:22); so Satan, bearing the guilt of all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit, will be for a thousand years confined to the earth, which will then be desolate, without inhabitant, and he will at last suffer the full penalty of sin in the fires that shall destroy all the wicked. Thus the great plan of redemption will reach its accomplishment in the final eradication of sin and the deliverance of all who have been willing to renounce evil. {GC 485.3}

Now the event takes place foreshadowed in the last solemn service of the Day of Atonement. When the ministration in the holy of holies had been completed, and the sins of Israel had been removed from the sanctuary by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, then the scapegoat was presented alive before the Lord; and in the presence of the congregation the high priest confessed over him "all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat." Leviticus 16:21. In like manner, when the work of atonement in the heavenly sanctuary has been completed, then in the presence of God and heavenly angels and the hosts of the redeemed the sins of God's people will be placed upon Satan; he will be declared guilty of all the evil which he has caused them to commit. And as the scapegoat was sent away into a land not inhabited, so Satan will be banished to the desolate earth, an uninhabited and dreary wilderness. {GC 658.1}

Not once does it say the annual accumulation of sins were placed upon the Lord's Goat on the Day of Atonement. It says the blood of the Lord's Goat is what gave the High Priest the right to remove and transfer the annual accumulation of sins upon the head of the Scapegoat. Throughout the year, it was the blood of sacrifices that made it possible to transfer sins to the Most Holy Place. At the end of the year, it is the Scapegoat that makes it possible to transfer their sins to the wilderness.

"The scapegoat was sent away into a land not inhabited, never to come again into the congregation of Israel. So will Satan be forever banished from the presence of God and His people, and he will be blotted from existence in the final destruction of sin and sinners." Jesus did not suffer the full and final penalty for sin. Satan is the one who will "suffer the full penalty of sin". He will "bear the final penalty". Dying the second death is how one suffers the full and final penalty. There is no resurrection from the second death. Jesus was raised on the third day.

Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141502
04/23/12 02:31 AM
04/23/12 02:31 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
What happened to the one for the Lord? It was killed and the body burned 'outside the camp' on the Miphkad altar on the top of Mount Olives just above Gethsemane . . .

What is your reference for this insight?

Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: Mountain Man] #141514
04/23/12 03:08 PM
04/23/12 03:08 PM
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kland  Offline
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I believe Ellen White said Christ "tasted" the second death. How can one taste death without experiencing it? Jesus was not lost, so therefore did not experience it fully, but he did die for our sins. Could that be what "tasting" means?
He died the second death, but at the same time did not die as the lost will. Not sure if I said it completely.

Dying a first death means nothing.

Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: kland] #141516
04/23/12 05:07 PM
04/23/12 05:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Kland, you could be right. Jesus may have died the second death.

Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: Mountain Man] #141578
04/25/12 04:49 AM
04/25/12 04:49 AM
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If dying the second death is paying the full and final penalty for sin, how can Jesus be my Redeemer if He did not pay the full penalty of my sin?

If Jesus died, not being able to see through the portals of the tomb, wasn't that experiencing the second death?

"The Saviour could not see through the portals of the tomb. Hope did not present to Him His coming forth from the grave a conqueror, or tell Him of the Father's acceptance of the sacrifice. He feared that sin was so offensive to God that Their separation was to be eternal. Christ felt the anguish which the sinner will feel when mercy shall no longer plead for the guilty race. It was the sense of sin, bringing the Father's wrath upon Him as man's substitute, that made the cup He drank so bitter, and broke the heart of the Son of God." {DA 753.2}

Isn't that the theme that drove the apostle Paul.
"He humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." Phil. 2:8.

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed (by God, Deut. 21:23)is everyone that hangeth on a tree." Gal. 3:13.

"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ." Gal. 6:14.

I believe the depth of this sacrifice will be our study for eternity.
No wonder it says in Luke, "He set His face steadfastly to go up to Jerusalem."


Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. 2 John 3.
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: geoffm] #141585
04/25/12 03:55 PM
04/25/12 03:55 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Geoff, what Jesus suffered from Gethsemane to Golgotha was the ultimate, the epitome of suffering. No doubt about it. Not being able to see through the portals of the tomb, although temporary, was nonetheless intense and beyond human comprehension. Just before He laid down His life the "loss of His Father's favor was withdrawn" and Jesus saw past the tomb standing victoriously on the Sea of Glass with the trophies of His triumph. Ellen wrote:

Quote:
Amid the awful darkness, apparently forsaken of God, Christ had drained the last dregs in the cup of human woe. In those dreadful hours He had relied upon the evidence of His Father's acceptance heretofore given Him. He was acquainted with the character of His Father; He understood His justice, His mercy, and His great love. By faith He rested in Him whom it had ever been His joy to obey. And as in submission He committed Himself to God, the sense of the loss of His Father's favor was withdrawn. By faith, Christ was victor. {DA 756.3}

Christ did not yield up His life till He had accomplished the work which He came to do, and with His parting breath He exclaimed, "It is finished." John 19:30. The battle had been won. His right hand and His holy arm had gotten Him the victory. As a Conqueror He planted His banner on the eternal heights. Was there not joy among the angels? All heaven triumphed in the Saviour's victory. Satan was defeated, and knew that his kingdom was lost. {DA 758.1}

Jesus drained the last dregs of the cup before He died. He accomplished what He came here to do before He died. He won the battle before He died. He planted His banner as victor before He died. He satisfied the death demands of law and justice before He died. He laid down His life after He paid our sin debt of death. On the Day of Atonement, according to the testimony of Scripture and the SOP, the accumulation of sin was transferred to the Scapegoat - not the Lord's Goat. The Scapegoat suffers the "full" and "final" penalty, that is, the second death, from which there is no resurrection. Jesus suffered and died for our sins; Satan will die with them. Jesus did not lay down His life on the Day of Atonement. The second death happens after the Day of Atonement.

Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: Mountain Man] #141586
04/25/12 03:59 PM
04/25/12 03:59 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
What happened to the one for the Lord? It was killed and the body burned 'outside the camp' on the Miphkad altar on the top of Mount Olives just above Gethsemane . . .

What is your reference for this insight?


Hebrews 13:10

We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

11For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. (The Miphkad Altar outside the eastern gate on Mt Olives was the only altar used in any Temple service not inside the Holy Precinct)

13Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. (written after Jesus had already ascended to heaven, we are to imagine going to Jesus while He drank the cup for us, like my vision seeing Jesus suffer the second death for me outside Jerusalem's Eastern Gate)

14For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.



This is the Miphkad altar where the body of the atonement sacrifice was burned and where the Red Heifer sacrifice took place. Here is where Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the donkey's colt and also where Jesus ascended to heaven. The gate to Gethsemane which was just down hill beneath the bridge was next to this altar. This is one of the most important places in redemption and very little is said about it in scripture because it is a message for us in the end.

The bridge was were the scapegoat was lead by the strong man to the wilderness of forgetfulness. Beneath the bridge is were the Brook Kidron was and this is the stream that Mrs White said the spring of life flows from. I could go on and on but you probably don't even care.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141587
04/25/12 04:06 PM
04/25/12 04:06 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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“Soon after they had commenced their earnest cry, the angels, in sympathy, desired to go to their deliverance. But a tall, commanding angel suffered them not. He said: “The will of God is not yet fulfilled. They must drink of the cup. They must be baptized with the baptism.
{CET 178.2}

Jesus drank the cup in Gethsemane outside the Eastern Gate, the Spirit of Prophecy says this is also when He had His baptism of blood.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141588
04/25/12 04:09 PM
04/25/12 04:09 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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“Christ felt the anguish which the sinner will feel when mercy shall no longer plead for the guilty race. It was the sense of sin, bringing the Father’s wrath upon Him as man’s substitute that made the cup He drank so bitter, and broke the heart of the Son of God. {DA 753.2}


The second death that Jesus suffered, doesn't mean Jesus died twice. It means He died the death that we will if resurrected outside of the Holy city after the thousand years of judgment. It would have been our second death if Jesus didn't do it for us. Just recently, I found the perfect sermon that illustrates this from Joe Crews, the founder of Amazing Facts. From his sermon and booklet;

"The High cost of the cross".

"The question is; how does Christ's death make it possible for Him to forgive sin? This brings us to the crux of all we have learned so far. It was necessary for Jesus to suffer the second death in order to acquire the power to forgive.

The germ of all forgiveness is rooted in an act of substitution. Whoever forgives another person must actually substitute himself for the one he forgives, and be willing to suffer the consequences of the wrong done...

This illustration brings us very close to the heart of the atonement.

The punishment for sin is not the first death, but the second death. That is why the protracted agony of Jesus on the cross was totally unlike any other death. Thousands of criminals were crucified in the same physical way that Christ was nailed to the cross, but they suffered only the bodily pain of the first death. He experienced the awful condemnation and separation from God that the vilest of sinners will feel in the lake of fire. His sensitive nature was traumatized by sharing vicariously the guilt of foul rapes, murders, and atrocities. He became sin in order to allow the full wrath of the law to fall upon Him in exactly the same way it would fall upon the lost.

In no other way can we explain the mysterious anguish of spirit which surrounded our Savior in His closing hours of life. From the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus bore the accumulated sins of mankind on His breaking heart. Not one ray of light was permitted to penetrate the blanket of total alienation from His Father in heaven. In order to take the place of guilty sinners and to provide forgiveness there could be no difference in their penalty and His penalty.

Let no one suggest that the Father did not suffer equally with His Son. The divine forbearance of God in allowing wicked men to torture His Son to death is the ultimate proof that He loves us with the same love that He loved Jesus."


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141589
04/25/12 04:17 PM
04/25/12 04:17 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Regarding this second death that Christ suffered for us, Acts 2: 29; 35 says… “Brethren, concerning the patriarch David… he spoke concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption." This sermon of Peters, was just seconds after the early rain outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost; which in itself is proof that it is a revelation in present truth. Peter was speaking with the same voice that the Holy Spirit originally prophesied through David and Joel, received by Peter here.

Notice that the soul of Jesus “was not left to Hades, NOR did His flesh see corruption”, two distinctly different phases of His death.

Taken directly from Strong’s concordance we find;

Hades; OUTLINE OF BIBLICAL USAGE; 1) name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions 2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead. 3) Later use of this word: the grave, death, hell.

According here to Strong’s concordance, the word Hades was not used for the word grave until after the bible was written! So “left to Hades” here must represent Christ before he went to the grave, being tormented by the god of this world, Satan, in the realm of the dead.

He was suffering the Second death with the sins of the world upon His head, cut off from communion with His Father. Imagine the wrath of Satan after He's been imprisoned by darkness and cold for a thousand years, and see why Jesus fears for those who will be lost to Him in the second resurrection.This is the real fear OF the Lord because He proved that He didn't fear for Himself, but for us.

The Next words in Acts, “NOR did His flesh see corruption” is the next phase in the Death of Christ.

Corruption in the New Testament; that destruction which is effected by the decay of the body after death.

What Peter and David are prophesying here is; God the Father would not leave Jesus the Son, outside of the Heavenly City suffering our second death in the land of the dead, without communication with Him forever. Nor would He let His body see decay or corruption during His stay in the grave. His body did not begin to stink.

Jesus was ordained as High Priest by the hand of the Father in heaven at that exact moment on Pentecost. Why was Peter prompted by the Holy Spirit to quote this prophecy, the very instant the Holy Spirit was poured out in strength and the tongues of fire wrote the law upon their hearts? It is because this fulfillment is part of the sign of Jonah, which leads to a more perfect understanding of the love of Christ and His Father for us. It shows us the path to heaven where He is, even now.

Since this was one of the first prophetic texts quoted by the Holy Spirit in the early rain, why would it not be connected to the latter rain message?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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