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Re: Why veganism causes premature death
[Re: kland]
#143313
06/12/12 05:02 PM
06/12/12 05:02 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Midland
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Good article, APL. I wonder if the same goes for other things such as B12? That animal eaters need more B12, get more, and yet still fail to make use of it? Then the RDA's are raised for everyone.
Got Milk? Get Osteoporosis.
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Re: Why veganism causes premature death
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#143316
06/12/12 05:16 PM
06/12/12 05:16 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Western, USA
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I did show you the context, Chapter 23 of MH. That's about as helpful as saying the context is the "Ellen White CD." MH is not a compilation as MM and others. The chapter is on diet and health. Your characterization as saying this is equivalent to the CD, does not work for me. No, Chapter 23 is not just in contrast to flesh foods. That comes later. You are of course, correct, when mentions them ONCE, and that is to warn against their free use. [quote=EGW]Especially harmful are the custards and puddings in which milk, eggs, and sugar are the chief ingredients. {MH 301.4} Did you see "free use" in that quote? Do you need to add more context to what you quoted? or is that phrase not there? She is not speaking about the eggs being evil. She is speaking about that particular combination of ingredients being problematic. She has much good to say about both milk and eggs. In this particular statement, she is being consistent with her other statements that warn of fermentation in the stomach resulting from milk and sugar combinations. The eggs are mentioned here because she is outlining all of the "chief ingredients." I could not, for example, in trying to warn against the yeast in bread, speak of "yeast and sugar" being the chief ingredients. I would have to mention the flour as well. the point was in this chapter, no where does he make eggs out to be health food. And the one quote was to show one of their harmful uses... Who? Those in new countries or in poverty-stricken districts. She also says we are to only use milk from healthy cows, and eggs from healthy fowl. Can you categorically state you know the health of the animals from which your milk and eggs come from? Recently in the U.S, in California, a milk cow was found to have "mad cow" disease. Does this give us assurance of the health of the animals from which our milk comes from? I'm not sure who you mean by "our," but I have not used milk in over a decade. If I were to go back to using milk, I think it would be goats' milk, from animals I either owned or from a nearby farmer--healthy animals. I agree with you that the industry-produced dairy products are highly unsafe. Mad cow disease is another issue. I do not believe the disease is quite what it has been cracked up to be. There are too many discrepancies in the whole thing that make it appear to support a grand conspiracy. To cut to the chase, I don't believe the disease is based so much on so-called "prions." It is perhaps little more than a severe bovine form of Alzheimer's. I believe the chief cause is mercury. Mercury in the brain wreaks havoc. The University of Calgary has published a video on the effects of mercury upon brain tissue that shows exactly how it damages the neurons and dendrites. Think about it. The so-called "prions" are said to be indestructible by pressure, radiation, heat, alcohol, bleach, peroxide, or any chemical for that matter, and they cannot be removed from surgical instruments. Does that sound like a protein? Proteins are large molecules. The larger the molecule, the more opportunity for it to be broken down. You would think they could invent some kind of lysine-based solution to cut it apart, or something. But, the fact that a "prion" cannot be destroyed in these ways points to one obvious conclusion--it is an elemental toxin. Elements cannot be created or destroyed except by nuclear reactions. But the industry does not want you to know about mercury. There are too many potential side-effects to their business should you become aware of the real problem. So they have invented a code word for it to explain the disease to the public. This planet is getting poisoned more and more all the time. Mercury is especially potent, and receives the most scathing remarks of any of the elements which Mrs. White mentions. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with prion diseases. Would you say Kuru is mercury poisoning? Would you say that patients receiving transplants from patients with CJD, causing CJD in the recipient, even when it is a cornea is mercury? I don't think so. MM is a compilation. The original source for that quote is from an manuscript release, and was specific instruction to that physician. Just as you have found, not have found a way to eliminate eggs. Your last sentence does not seem to make sense to my mind. I'm not sure what you were trying to say there. As for the compilation, yes, MM does appear to be a compilation. However, I chose to take the quote from it, as it came out before the Manuscript Release of it had been published. Yes, it was specific instruction to that physician. But there is instruction in it that applies far more broadly. For example, Mrs. White did not say " You should not teach people not to use milk and eggs." She said "the doctrine of dispensing with them should not be taught." This means that this physician could not have told someone else working with him to do the teaching in his place. This instruction applied to anyone and everyone in our work. Regarding your last link, it takes me to a site by the USDA. I don't trust information coming from them, as they have been known to twist facts for decades to suit their own purposes. Furthermore, they openly declare in that article that this concept of sulfur's relationship to bone density is only a theory. Again, nice coverup job on their part. They would not want the average consumer to be aware of mercury's effects on the body. The issue is compounded by the lobbyists for big pharma, the American Dental Association (ADA), and by other groups such as the AMA who routinely use mercury in treatment of people. They have all banded together to prevent an awareness of its ill effects from being made public, and are making legal instruments to support their business. Blessings, Green Cochoa. I quoted only one source. I said there are many. You said, you never heard this before. I do agree with you though, you can find many people twisting facts, and often there is $$$ behind it. Even on MABO!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Why veganism causes premature death
[Re: APL]
#143319
06/12/12 06:38 PM
06/12/12 06:38 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014
Veteran Member
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
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yes, MM does appear to be a compilation It's troubling when anyone uses these writings without knowing the difference between the original books and the compilations. It's basic EGW knowledge. Worse still when testifying that the health message causes premature death, making of no effect the Spirit of Prophecy. _____________
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Re: Why veganism causes premature death
[Re: gordonb1]
#143320
06/12/12 06:41 PM
06/12/12 06:41 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014
Veteran Member
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
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One meets many preachers today who have a laptop and a CD-Rom.
But no book knowledge.
The message is dissected and lost.
_____________
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Re: Why veganism causes premature death
[Re: gordonb1]
#143336
06/13/12 01:53 PM
06/13/12 01:53 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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yes, MM does appear to be a compilation It's troubling when anyone uses these writings without knowing the difference between the original books and the compilations. It's basic EGW knowledge. Worse still when testifying that the health message causes premature death, making of no effect the Spirit of Prophecy. _____________ Gordon, It's troubling when people do not check the quotes themselves before spouting off about someone's selection of them. I suppose you have no idea about the source of the quote you are ranting about. I was fully aware when I posted it that it was from a compilation. Guess what? It doesn't matter which source you take it from...this particular statement cannot be found in any of the "original" books--they are ALL compilations! You don't consider "Manuscript Releases" compilations??? The statement I quoted from Medical Ministry also occurs in the following resources: 1) Counsels on Diet and Foods (1938) 2) Testimony Studies on Diet and Foods (1926) -- Compiled by Harold M. Walton 3) Manuscript Releases Volume Three (1990) 4) Manuscript Releases Volume Twelve (1990) Not a single one of those "other options" available was printed during Mrs. White's lifetime. In fact, they are all compilations or collections. There is no other source for this statement. I would appreciate an apology. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Why veganism causes premature death
[Re: gordonb1]
#143337
06/13/12 02:00 PM
06/13/12 02:00 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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One meets many preachers today who have a laptop and a CD-Rom.
But no book knowledge.
The message is dissected and lost.
_____________
One also meets with many critics today who have no knowledge of what they criticize. I have noticed that many vegans are in this category. There is something about the vegan diet that changes the mind to an unbalanced perspective. Vitamin B12 seems to have some role in the blood-brain barrier. I'm still waiting to hear more about these recent findings. It appears that B12 affects the way the brain and nerves are nourished by the blood. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Why veganism causes premature death
[Re: APL]
#143338
06/13/12 02:03 PM
06/13/12 02:03 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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I do agree with you though, you can find many people twisting facts, and often there is $$$ behind it. Even on MABO! If you are implying I stand to profit by any of the ideas I've discussed here on the forums, you are decidedly wrong. I take offense to your statement. Furthermore, which facts have I twisted? Please apologise. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Why veganism causes premature death
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#143342
06/13/12 04:19 PM
06/13/12 04:19 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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I do agree with you though, you can find many people twisting facts, and often there is $$$ behind it. Even on MABO! If you are implying I stand to profit by any of the ideas I've discussed here on the forums, you are decidedly wrong. I take offense to your statement. Furthermore, which facts have I twisted? Please apologise. Blessings, Green Cochoa. Did I say YOU stood to profit? No. No apology reguired. I read you to be a radical moderate. I have already stated that. Yes, I reject your belief that one can not be healthy and be "vegan". Vegan of course needs to be defined correctly, because not all totally plant based diet eaters are "vegan". You have acknowledged your B12 issues that occurred what, 20 years ago? Your experience can not translate to every other individual. B12 supplementation works for many. The blanket statement that "veganism" causes premature death can not be supported by the evidence. Even the Adventist Health Study was flawed in that "vegans" could not be differentiated as to which were life-long vegans, and those that because vegan because of health reasons! Often times this latter group is indeed sicker.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Why veganism causes premature death
[Re: APL]
#143344
06/13/12 04:51 PM
06/13/12 04:51 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
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Good point! Many, (or the very few I know), have switched to a healthier diet because of illness. To then say veganism causes cancer, obesity, high blood pressure, etc. would not be anywhere near accurate.
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Re: Why veganism causes premature death
[Re: kland]
#143348
06/13/12 05:37 PM
06/13/12 05:37 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
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To add to the above The American Dietetic Association indicated in 2003 that vegetarian diets may be more common among adolescents with eating disorders, Definitions? In 1951 the British Vegan Society broadened its definition of veganism to "the doctrine that man should live without exploiting animals."
Leslie Cross, the society's vice-president wrote that veganism is a principle, that it is "not so much about welfare [of animals] as liberation."
The Vegan Society in the UK will only certify a product as vegan if it is free of animal involvement as far as possible and practical.
Ethical vegans will not use animal products for clothing, toiletries, or any other reason, and will try to avoid ingredients that have been tested on animals. They will not buy fur coats, leather shoes, belts, bags, wallets, woollen jumpers, silk scarves, camera film, and certain vaccines, etc.
Nothing about health here. (Hey! I just now saw that. A global warming spin on vaccines!) Today the word "veganism" is still used to refer either to the plant-based diet or to a lifestyle that seeks to eliminate animal use entirely.I tried searching but couldn't locate it again, but had come across one site which said to the effect that promoting veganism as a diet gives a bad rap to the movement. Vegans are not about health. They are about making a statement. Animals have more rights than people, political or otherwise. A vegan may be ok with eating a healthful diet. But people who eat a healthful diet may not be ok with eating a vegan one. But then again, there aren't very many people that I know of who eat a healthful diet.
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