Gordon, B12 is an interesting topic. I've been totally plant based in my diet for 5+ years. I say my family practice doc for the first time in 15 years, and out of a whim had my B12 checked. It was just a little ABOVE normal. One does not need a lot of B12. Since studying the topic of diet and health, I know physicians that practice lifestyle medicine, treating disease with diet, who do not take B12 supplements, and do not have any deficiency, this after 30+ years or completely plant based diet. That said, it is an easy test to check B12 levels.

An interesting thing about many vegans, is that they changed to that lifestyle because of health issues. I do not believe that the Adventist Health Study 2 is capturing data on how long a person has been vegan, or at least not if they have been life long vegans. Too bad.

The evidence I've read convinces me that there is no longer a need to use milk and eggs for those that have access to a variety of fruits and vegetables.

And interesting website on the science of diet and health, check out Dr. Michael Greger.

APL,

Perhaps you are one of the small minority. Be very thankful. I have verified by experience that I am not one of them. That is why I must still use eggs. It would be a sin for me to discard that which is needful for my health. And I feel it is just as wrong for vegans to pressure other people into a vegan diet when God, through Ellen White, has instructed us specifically NOT to do this, even telling us that but a small minority of people can do well on a vegan diet.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I'm not sure it is a small minority. Coca-Cola and potato chips is "vegan" and not healthy. Many vegetarians eat way too much simple sugar. There are inborn errors of metabolism that may require MEAT

Ellen White has said, in her time, that SHORTLY, all animal produces will need to be dispensed with. Example:

That said, when I teach diet and health, I try to work with the people where they are, and make changes no faster than they are ready to adapt to them.

It is worth noting that vitamin B12 deficiency is a common thing, and even meat eaters can be deficient. Consumption of meat, dairy or eggs does not guarantee adequate uptake of B12. Other factors involved include intrinsic factor, and may involve microbial action within the intestinal tract.

Animals, like humans, do not make vitamin B12. The only reason they have it is that they harness a symbiotic relationship with bacteria in one form or another to receive their B12. Cows, for example, which chew their cud, have bacteria in their stomachs which break down the beta-chain fibers (cellulose) in the grasses and also produce vitamin B12 which the cow is then able to absorb. We don't chew our cud, and don't have the same bacteria that a cow does.

Vitamin B12 is a large molecule which cannot ordinarily be absorbed through the intestinal lining. It is so large, in fact, that the intestine has to open up a special hole to let it pass through. Such a hole might also permit entry to a host of undesirables, so the intestine will not do this without the prompting of intrinsic factor.

More on B12 later...

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Yes, but "shortly" is a decidedly "relative" term. Jesus also has told us two-thousand years ago "behold I come quickly." "Shortly" does not give us a time, except to prepare us for the possibility of it happening soon.

Regarding the "small minority," these are the prophet's own words, not my own.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

yes, "shortly" is relative. do understand, that in her time, there was no refrigeration, so products were fresh, and you often "knew" the animals where they came from. That is no longer true with today's factory farming techniques.

Yes, B12 only comes from bacteria. B12 levels are easy to measure. More on B12 HERE and HERE

APL,

Veganhealth.org has a lot of good information, and I appreciate their balanced approach on the B12 issue that you linked. Dr. McDougall's opinions, on the other hand, do not resonate with me. Here is an example...


He's trying so hard to defend veganism that he cannot see the forest for the trees. In my experience, B12 deficiency is itself a disease--so 100% of people with severe deficiency are diseased, not just one in a million.

In my case, the disease had a clinical name: pernicious anemia. It had clinical symptoms like numbness and tingling in the hands, lack of taste, smell, and appetite, memory loss, low energy levels, etc. I began flunking my classes, as I was a student at the time, and the memory loss dramatically affected my scholastic ability. I was at that time very active, working four hours a day on the farm. I was eating a purely vegan diet, with just one teaspoon of honey a month, no sugar at all, ever, and plenty of variety of natural, whole foods. Fruits, grains, vegetables, and nuts comprised nearly the entire diet. I was eating no potato chips, no soda pop, no candy, no milk, no margarine, no eggs, no cheese, low oil, and moderate salt. It was a classic NEWSTART diet and featured NEWSTART-trained cooks who prepared it.

On account of some prior experience with this sort of strict diet within the family, at my parents' request I was receiving one vitamin B12 shot each week. In spite of this precautionary measure, it was found that my body was unable to utilize the B12 in that form, and within a matter of about six months, I developed anemia. Essentially, my liver had run out of stores.

The liver is able to store B12 on average for between six months and two years, depending on the individual. In my case, I was at the shorter end. It was only by eating several eggs a day for about three months that I was returned to normal.

Praise God for teaching me how to maintain my health! I learned that the B12 supplements were inadequate for my needs. Perhaps others are better able to benefit from them. Each person must learn for himself or herself what is necessary for optimal health.

God bless,

Green Cochoa.

Pernicious Anemia is caused by a lack of "intrinsic factor", not just a lack of B12 in the diet. In fact, with pernicious anemia (PA), you may have plenty of B12 but you can't absorb it. PA can be caused by an autoimmune disease which destroy the cells that make intrinsic factor, or by some infections. The elderly can also loose the ability to make intrinsic factor.

I'm surprised that eggs along cured your B12 lack due to PA. Eggs are not that high in B12 and do not contain intrinsic factor. Oral replacement with high dose sublingual supplements or nasal sprays, or injections are often required. These routes of administration bypass the need for intrinsic factor. It is good that eggs work for you!

I had a doctor tell me that the reason vegetarians are short on B12 is because the first thing they do in the moring is rinse out their mouth with a mouth wash, destroying the bacteria that forms their B12. I drink a glass of water first, then mouth wash. No B12 shortage.

The pernicious anemia is directly related to vitamin B12. If one were to have plenty of vitamin B12, and no intrinsic factor at all (hypthetical case, probably impossible), he or she would not have the anemia. On the other hand, we might also find someone who has plenty of intrinsic factor, but no B12 for it to act upon in the diet, and the person would have the anemia, being short on B12.

Intrinsic factor is involved, certainly, but is not the only consideration. Vegans who consume no vitamin B12 are not necessarily helped by having intrinsic factor.

Regarding the B12 content in eggs, according to a few websites I just looked at, eggs rank in the top 10 sources for vitamin B12. Most of the others would all be off the list for vegetarians, half of them being unclean meats.

Eggs have about double the amount of B12 that is to be found in milk.

The eggs got me through the remainder of that school year, but I was not fully recovered until a couple of months at home, and during those months I was eating dairy products as well such as yogurt and ice cream. I had not given up dairy at that time, so it probably helped to catch me up from the deficiency.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.