I would not go that far, as Christ was begotten of the Holy Ghost and also born of the Spirit, not every child or baby is born of the Spirit in the mothers womb. But Christ has no advantage over us as we all can be 'born of the Spirit' or reborn as Christ explained it to Nicodemus. God can fill with the power of the Holy Ghost even from the womb...

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Sorry for this side topic,

Since Jesus' divinity did not die in his death, who or what of worthiness died on the cross for a sacrifice for sin? Did God die for us, in the end, or only a human death?...

The Son of God died. That's not divine nature, but divine identity: Jesus, the very Son of God himself, died as a man. That's why Jesus divine identity personally distinguished from his Father is so pivotal to the Gospel of Calvary's cross.

If not the actual Son of God, divine with his Father, can Jesus have died as 'Son' in a figurative sense? Doesn't sound like it, since then he would not be the actual personal, divine identity who died for us.

A critical point of truth in the Gospel.

Humanity died; divinity did not die. In His divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He has life in Himself to quicken whom He will. – {1SM 301.1}

Deity did not die. Humanity died, but Christ now proclaims over the rent sepulcher of Joseph, “I am the resurrection, and the life.” – {5BC 1113.4}

Amen!

Amen APL. You have received a very good understanding of truth.



On the cross when Jesus the Son of God was dying the physical death He said "Father into thine hands I commend my Spirit" then He died.

"Through Jesus, God’s mercy was manifested to men; but mercy does not set aside justice. The law reveals the attributes of God’s character, and not a jot or tittle of it could be changed to meet man in his fallen condition. God did not change His law, but He sacrificed Himself, in Christ, for man’s redemption. “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.” 2 Corinthians 5:19. {DA 762.1}

"When the voice of the angel was heard saying, “Thy Father calls thee,” He who had said, “I lay down my life, that I might take it again,” “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up,” came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Deity did not die. Humanity died, but Christ now proclaims over the rent sepulcher of Joseph, “I am the resurrection, and the life.” In His divinity Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He had life in Himself to quicken whom He will." {5BC 1113.4}

Notice here how the prophecy says "Humanity died", not the just the humanity of Christ, but all of humanity died in His death. He literally died the second death, cut off from the Father, for every man who would ever be born if they would only accept His offering for us. There is a lot to learn here. Humanity died and in their place came 'son's of God' resurrected to new life.

This is the greatest mystery of scripture.

God called Jesus back to life, and Jesus, who had life within himself resurrected himself by the power that the Father had invested him with at his birth in heaven. But during His stay in the grave do not be confused, He was a PRISONER in behalf of all mankind during the three days and three nights in the grave of Jonah. He was still suffering the wrath of God in the grave, still cut off from the Father.

"He who died for the sins of the world was to remain in the tomb the allotted time. He was in that stony prison house as a prisoner of divine justice. He was responsible to the Judge of the universe. He was bearing the sins of the world, and His Father only could release Him. A strong guard of mighty angels kept watch over the tomb, and had a hand been raised to remove the body, the flashing forth of their glory would have laid him who ventured powerless on the earth. {5BC 1114.1}
There was only one entrance to the tomb, and neither human force nor fraud could tamper with the stone that guarded the entrance. Here Jesus rested during the Sabbath. But prophecy had pointed out that on the third day Christ would rise from the dead. Christ Himself had assured His disciples of this. “Destroy this temple,” He said, “and in three days I will raise it up.” Christ never committed sin, neither was guile found in His mouth. His body was to come forth from the tomb untarnished by corruption (Manuscript 94, 1897).{5BC 1114.2}

Notice how Mrs White was shown that "Prophecy had pointed out that on the third day Christ would rise from the dead"... The thoughts of the Father were made manifest through the mouth of His Son in heaven in the creation of man, and every word that ever came out of his mouth for us HAD to be fulfilled. Every word of prophecy is written in the fabric of eternity and cannot be thwarted, they MUST come true. To understand this IS faith.

So when God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit thought to make men in their image and laid the foundation or our universe, Jesus spoke the words in heaven that where made manifest through Him in His life on earth.

When in His triumphal entry into Jerusalem He said "if they were to stop shouting, the rocks would immediately begin where they left off" he meant that the words that He spoke in heaven, how He could divinely see it unfold before it happened, MUST come to pass.

So the fulfillment of Jesus being cut off from the Father was prophesied and must come to pass. This is how these things were accomplished, through the words of God made manifest on earth. Jesus as man was living out the life He had proposed and foresaw in heaven. Heaven is above space and time of our existence. God did not die when Jesus died as a man because Jesus is part of the Father.

I know this will be misunderstood, but it is a good lesson.

That's not the problem, asygo.

Nevermind that the Father called his Son from the grave - Jesus didn't use his divine power to give life for himself when he was dead. That discussion shouldn't really have been started.

For the cross of calvary to achieve salvation by God, who or what of worth sufficient to redeem us from death died on the tree? If, indeed, divinity did not die, then - if only humanity died - did God actually not die for us???

Remember when Jesus said "Father I wish that they were in me, as I am in THEE, that where I might be they might be also"?

How is it that Jesus was IN the Father?

How is it that we can be IN Christ while living on earth?

You might look at this and say what does it have to do with what I asked, but it has EVERYTHING to with it brother Colin.

Jesus came forth from the Father, His only Begotten Son.

This happened when the Father CONCEIVED the idea of making man. Jesus was born as the perfect illustration of God's love, and as the perfect contingency plan for men to be saved. Born of the Father without need of a mother until He came to earth as a man.

Jesus IS the Father made manifest to all of God's creation. He is perfectly in the Fathers heart. The only one permitted to be involved in everything the Father conceives together with His holy Spirit.

He became a separate entity after His birth in heaven, but in perfect harmony with the Father. God created everything through Him, then after His earthly birth He became the instrument through which men might be RECREATED.

Let me distill it to the bare minimum so there is no confusion:

So before we get into the meat of your question, do we agree that divinity did not die?

Brother Arnold,

I think by the way he worded his last statement, he did not fathom the concept that divinity did not die, even though Jesus, a part of God, did physically die here on earth.

Jesus is as much a part of God as His Father. He's a complete and separate entity from the Father, but connected by inheritance, and through the Spirit, another complete and separate entity of the Godhead.

Jesus is the perfect Son because no mother was needed. I see it kind of like a form of divine Mitosis. One cell becoming two, then Jesus became two in the Holy Spirit, and the Godhead was complete. Perfectly in the same form and wonder of God but individually connected all three together, Then THEY started creating.

The Father shared everything with the Son and the Holy Spirit, they could all see the thoughts of each other symbiotically. They are in harmony and peace together. Jesus is the audible thoughts of the Father and the Holy Spirit empowered the angels etc and so on...

Now the other component of this equation is Jesus as a man.

Men are constrained by the laws of our universe, Time and space, birth and most importantly the 10 commandments. Jesus subjected Himself to these laws with our fallen nature, to become one of us fully without the use of His Godhead powers though they were still there for Him because He was fully God. He only used what is for us to use.

Angels were at His command and kept Him from sinking into the sea.

Then beyond this, He was subjected to being judged by the same laws that we are judged by. As a human He was recorded in the BOOK of remembrance, the complete record of our every thought and deed while on earth that serves as a testimony either for or against us in heaven.

This is for another debate but I believe that Jesus was His own redeemer because He became a man. He willingly subjected Himself to be under all of our laws, and put Himself on the line even as God.

He could have failed and sinned, and would be subject to His own demise. But through resistance to evil He overcame our wicked natures and was perfected as a man, learning to love even more than He did perfectly in heaven, in fulfillment to what the Father showed Him would happen while still up there before He came as a baby.

By overcoming, He became our representative at the tribunal in heaven when that book is opened and each of our cases are brought up. He is seen in Revelation as the Lamb that was slain, worthy to open the book.

So in this is where I see what you are looking for.

Jesus came as a man, but even though He was fully part of the Godhead, if He would have sinned He could have died as God, but because He didn't sin, His divine nature was preserved un-defiled, and this gave Him the right to carry our sins for us.

Jesus took our sins upon Himself, He carried them, and took responsibility of them upon Himself but was still innocent and this preserved His divine nature from defilement. If Jesus did sin do you think He could have went back to heaven?

When Jesus died for our sins spiritually in Gethsemane, even the Divine part of Jesus allowed Himself to be cut off from the Father and this was His greatest test. He made it through the test without losing His Faith in His Father to get Him through, so He said, "But not my will be done, let it be your will Father" so even in this He did not sin while being punished for our sins.

The divinity of Jesus could not die but proposed to stay in the prison of the earth for three days and three nights cut off from the Father. How this was accomplished we will only know if He tells us in heaven.

Here are some interesting clues...

"Suddenly the gloom lifted from the cross, and in clear, trumpetlike tones, that seemed to resound throughout creation, Jesus cried, “It is finished.” “Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit.” A light encircled the cross, and the face of the Saviour shone with a glory like the sun. He then bowed His head upon His breast, and died. {DA 756.2}

Notice, He commended HIS Spirit to the Father. Then the Face of Jesus shone like the sun, then the humanity of Jesus died.

Now what you are asking is, if divinity couldn't die then how did Jesus die if He is divine? Was He in heaven sipping a smoothie and watching His body die? No way!

The divine part of Jesus was as tormented as His human part, cut off from the Father, but when He commended His spirit to the Father, something happened there, but it was not a death of His divinity.

I know He was not seen by the Father even in divinity until the resurrection and He appeared to the Father just after talking with Marry after His resurrection... so the divinity must have remained with the body of Jesus, and this is why His body did not begin to decompose and stink. He was dead as a man but alive as God cut off from the Father, waiting in the "prison house" of the grave.

"The women who had been Christ’s humble followers while He lived would not leave Him until they saw Him laid in the tomb and a stone of great weight placed before the door, lest His enemies should seek to obtain His body. But they need not have feared; for I saw that the angelic host watched with untold interest in the resting place of Jesus, earnestly waiting for the command to act their part in liberating the King of glory from His prison house.—Early Writings, 180 (1882). {DG 71.1}

Jesus the divine was in that prison house, not sitting in heaven waiting for His body to be resurrected.

You mentioned some things that I have been mulling over for a while. Sadly, I don't have time to delve into them now, except for this one:

If Jesus sinned, the SOP tells us that God's wrath would have fallen on Him as it did upon Adam. But would He have been subject to eternal death as Adam was?

Sin separates us from God, our source of life. Without life from God, we die. That's why sin brings death and life is only promised to the obedient.

However, Jesus has life in Himself. Even completely separated from the Father, He has life. So what happens when there is an immortal, omnipotent sinner? Would Satan triumph because he proved that even God Himself cannot obey? Would Satan be dethroned by a more powerful sinner? Would there be an eternal war between Father and Son? I'm not sure, but every scenario I imagine makes me shudder.

The thought of it makes me marvel even more at what was risked in order to redeem us.